Saturday, July 16, 2005

Maybe it's time for all you credulous muppets out there to follow your masters' orders and believe a different story

Here's an article taken from today’s Daily Mirror. I didn’t link it direct in case the location, or the story itself, changes.

Need I point out that this version of the ‘official story’ is also patently a load of old bollocks?

Of course, if another couple of newspapers also run this story all those stupid bastards out there will believe this crap as fervently as they swallowed the suicide bomber crap.

I'll say it one more time:

The evidence that has been released into the public domain so far only fully makes sense if the four Muslims who were killed DID NOT KNOW THEY WERE CARRYING BOMBS.

They keep shoveling it. We keep swallowing it.


Why did they buy return train tickets to Luton? Why did they buy pay & display tickets for cars? Why were there no usual shouts of 'Allah Akhbar'? Why were bombs in bags and not on their bodies?
Exclusive By Jeff Edwards

THE London bombers may have been duped into killing themselves so their secrets stayed hidden.

Police and MI5 are probing if the four men were told by their al-Qaeda controller they had time to escape after setting off timers. Instead, the devices exploded immediately.

A security source said: "If the bombers lived and were caught they'd probably have cracked. Would their masters have allowed that to happen? We think not."

The evidence is compelling: The terrorists bought return rail tickets, and pay and display car park tickets, before boarding _ a train at Luton for London. None of the men was heard to cry "Allah Akhbar!" - "God is great" - usually screamed by suicide bombers as they detonate their bomb.

Their devices were in large rucksacks which could be easily dumped instead of being strapped to their bodies. They carried wallets containing their driving licences, bank cards and other personal items. Suicide bombers normally strip themselves of identifying material.

Similar terror attacks against public transport in Madrid last year were carried out by recruits who had time to escape and planned to strike again.

Bomber Hasib Hussain detonated his device at the rear of the top deck of a No 30 bus, not in the middle of the bottom deck where most damage would be caused.

Additionally, two of the bombers had strong personal reasons for staying alive.

Jermaine Lindsay's partner Samantha Lewthwaite, 22, mother of his one-year-old son, is expecting her second baby within days. Mohammed Sidique Khan's wife Hasina, mum of a 14-month-old daughter, is also pregnant.

Our source disclosed: "The theory that they were not a suicide squad is gathering pace. They were the weakest link.

"We think it's possible they were told that when they pressed buttons to set off timers they'd have a short time to abandon the bombs and get away before the blast. Instead, the bombs exploded immediately."

Another intelligence source added: "Whoever is behind this didn't want to waste their best operatives on a suicide mission. Instead they used easily recruited low-grade men who may have believed they'd walk away."

At least 54 people were killed in the 7/7 blasts. Khan, 30, of Dewsbury, Shehzad Tanweer, 22, of Leeds, and Jamaican-born Lindsay, 19, of Aylesbury, Bucks, detonated devices on the Tube at Edgware Road, Aldgate and King's Cross.

Hussain, 18, of Leeds, blasted the bus at Tavistock Square. The Tube explosions went off almost simultaneously. But the bus went up an hour later.

Yesterday, Hussain's family told of their horror at the teenager's involvement in the massacre. They said in a statement: "We are devastated over the events of the past few days. Hasib was a loving and normal young man who gave us no concern and we are having difficulty taking this in.

"Our thoughts are with all the bereaved families. We have to live with the loss of our son in these difficult circumstances.

"We had no knowledge of his activities and, had we done, we would have done everything in our power to stop him. We urge anyone with information to cooperate fully with the authorities."

Police are urgently investigating the missing 81 minutes between Hussain arriving from Luton in London and the time his bomb went off.

His device may have malfunctioned. He may have lost his nerve. Or he may have panicked when he discovered the Northern Line, on which he is thought to have been due to travel, was suspended.

Officers want to discover if Hussain met anyone else who either strengthened his faltering resolve or reset his flawed bomb.

Latest cow pat sized helping of disinformation ends. Now go outside,do your patriotic duty and kick a Muslim.


Jay.Mac said...

I'm not entirely convinced by the argument, although I will say that it's not so far-fetched- a suicide bomber was stopped in his car in Iraq recently and when US troops removed him they found a remote detonator fixed to the explosive too. But let's look at the evidence.

1. Return Tickets. Yes, it seems a little odd. Might it have been to allay suspicion if they were stopped? Hard to say. Granted this is strange.
2. They didn't scream "allah akhbar". That's not evidence that they weren't suicide bombers- the article says that it's "usually" yelled out. I'd like to see the statistics on that one- where did they get the "usually" from? Is it yelled 60% of the time? 80%? Evidence?
3. Rucksacks instead of suicide vests. Again, that's not evidence this wasn't a suicide attack- it's summer in England, a suicide vest might have been a bit noticeable. A rucksack is simply an easy way to transport the explosives on a crowded transport system, where people are often bumping into you. And virtually everyone seems to carry one.
4. They carried ID. That means they weren't going to kill themselves? Really? Perhaps they wanted to have their remains identified for the sakes of their families. Perhaps there was no reason for them to strip themselves of ID. Remember, this is the UK, not Israel. This type of attack is not going to mirror exactly how it's done elsewhere in every regard.
5. The weakest argument of all- they had "personal reasons" to remain alive. Look at suicide bombers around the world and you'll see that many of them had wives, children and some even pregnant wives. That doesn't seem to matter a damn to them.

Again, I'm not saying that these guys were 100% definitely suicide bombers, but before you go insisting that it's not possible/probable, take a cool look at the evidence. For me the only real question is the return ticket. Yeah, that's an odd one. As for the pay and display car ticket- wasn't that the same vehicle which was found that contained more explosives? Perhaps they were transporting it for someone else to collect later? Perhaps another member of their cell was to drive it away at some later date.

Also, there will no doubt be evidence of a remote transmitter (if such a thing was used to set the bombs off) or a timer, if that's what these bombers thought they were triggering. I'll leave it to the bomb experts to decide exactly how the devices were put together.

Who exactly is the credulous muppet here? The person who accepts the evidence form the British police or the one who concocts a "definite" conspiracy theory on the basis of a single piece of unusual evidence? Exactly what does the British government have to gain by suppressing forensic evidence from the police and lying to the British public about this? What motive explains that?

Here's another point to ponder- if the bombers had been killed by their masters wouldn't it make perfect sense for the government to get that information out there? Wouldn't it dissuade any would-be bomb carrier to know that he or she might get blown to smithereens half-way through their task? Just a thought.

Stef said...

You've taken time to post a reasoned comment and it merits a longer response than I can give at the moment

A couple of points for now

First off, you're responding to a newspaper article not the points I've made in previous posts and I think I've made my feelings pretty clear on the quality of newspaper articles. I've quoted this as an example of disinformation rather than something that I consider to be reasoned and reliable. But fair enough that's the piece quoted in this entry

1. To all intents and purposes these guys behaved as if they were going to London for the day for some innocent purpose and had no reason to behave inconspicuously. How much evidence of that is required before you, or anyone would say, 'Sod it, they really do look like they went down to London for the day not knowing they were carrying bombs'. What would it take?

Re. your response on the ID thing, that's thin and an example of people twisting around to fit facts into the official story. If the guys wanted to be identified and known they would have left a testament, a video, something. Every politician and newspaper seems to understand their motives. I don't. Maybe they held a seance.

Your suggested answer also seems to contradict the suggestion you made elsewhere that they didn't give a stuff about their famiilies

2. Your last point gets to the nub of the issue. Why would the government be reluctant to acknowledge these guys were dupes? The most obvious answer is that if these guys were dupes and didn't know they were carrying bombs then absolutely anyone could have set them up. Maybe Islamic fundamentalists but maybe someone else. Can you imagine what the consequences would be if it turns out this wasn't executed by Muslim fundamentalists? That's why the Mirror story introduces the notion of dummy timers. That's 100% pure speculation based on the need to maintain the idea that these guys were aware of the bombs.

BTW1 Why the explosives in the car? I would say they were planted there to support a chain of evidence? What's the alternate explanation? They forgot they were there? They thought 'F*ck it, we'll leave some behind for laugh?', They were preparing their bombs in Luton Station Car Park?

BTW2 When the head of the Met says things like 'We haven't yet found a direct connection with Al Qaeda but we expect to' I start to think that the Met needs a new head. Anyway, finding a link is just a formality, Blair's figured everything out already anyway.

Dismissing valid, sustainable concerns I, or anyone else, might have as being 'just a conspiracy theory' is not an argument. The fact that I don't swallow a bill of goods from a politicised police force or a government with a proven track record of deceit on fundamental matters of life and death does not make me a nutcase. Well, except maybe in the Stalinist sense of the word. Maybe I should be packed off to a state run hospital somewhere for corrective treatment?

Let's be clear here. Any explanation of those bombings relies on belief in one conspiracy or another. As it stands, the official conspiracy theory is just as flaky as many of the ideas I've read from the tinfoil helmet brigade.

I've mentioned this in a comment elsewhere but I see a dialogue developing

- gap appears in the official story
- planted newspaper story or 'evidence' appears to plug the gap

Let's see what next week brings.

If you enjoy intellectual games just try following the news for one day on the assumption that this was a fit-up by masterminds unknown with the purpose of discrediting Muslims. the results might interest you