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Just a reminder that the deadline for nominations for this year's Conspiraloon™ One True Antichrist™ of the Year contest closes on 31st of this month
Please send your nominations, along with supporting calculations and the all-important £100 () administration fee, to the usual PO Box
Please also remember that incomplete applications, i.e. any which fail to include...
- reference to at least one Biblical prophecy
- at least one astrological chart
- an annotated sketch which proves that your nominee's earthly kingdom has been announced by way of coded symbolism hidden in the retail packaging of at least one popular household product
- a numerological connection between some variation of the nominee's name and The Mark of the Beast (no less than two A4 pages long, please!!)
- a photograph of an exploding star
...will be rejected automatically
For anyone who hasn't prepared an application before here's an example of how it's done -
Is the Antichrist Russian President Putin?
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edit: the competition is starting to heat up!!
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29 comments:
A bit off topic.
Email from JohnRedwood MP : 'I am not posting your comment, as there is no evidence of insider dealing, and the authorities assert that Rock is solvent. Your comments could result in legal aciton. Thanks for writing in.'
Any comments guys?
3 comments
1. Wher does Stef get these ideas from?
2. Re : Redwood - bit short on detail - well the way half the shares in NR were traded when they produced interim results and shares lost £1 on the day does suggest that the smart money guys realised that the referee had blown the whistle and started shorting like mad.
A close examination of the share deals from June 24th of NR would be very revealing.
Authorities can assert all they like, the sole judges of solvency in UK Company Law are the Directors.
3. er
Sorry, shutter, the context of Mr Redwood's comments is seen on my own blog.
@shutter
1. Wher does Stef get these ideas from?
I wonder
Any comments guys?
Well, Redwood does sound a bit like Wormwood
Alternatively, one could ponder upon the implications of Lord Patel's recent post on the subject here
Where does Stef get these ideas from?
From prolonged exposure to extreme weirdness and the persistence of gentle behaviour
I regard the owner of this site and the people who come here as being both intelligent and wise so perhaps this post is redundant. Nevertheless:
I appreciate the laugh at the deluge of Messiahs we have today, as such fakesters deserve nothing less, although I can understand why SOME may do so for genuinely sincere albeit for erroneous reasons.
As for antichrists, well, no one personally claims that title as far as I am aware, instead, it's left to individuals interested in this stuff to try and identify such a figure.
While it seems many draw upon dubious sources e.g. "tea leaf readers who 'only they' possess special skills needed to tap this esoteric knowledge" and so forth, some do not, and instead draw upon very worthy sources such as historical documents that have withstood many challenges in the past. Of course if one happens to be a non-believer then they too would regard such sources as possible nonsense and perhaps categorize as idiots, those believers who engage in such 'antichrist spotting'.
So as a monotheist, the appearance of the false prophet is a very strong part of my faith, therefore I feel that some of the scorn includes my beliefs and ideas.
I would probably dismiss people such who use nonsense to support these claims, but because I share the same overall belief, then there will be a point at which a grey area is reached, where it's not so easy to say such information is either nonsense or reasonable.
I don't believe in astrology but I can't totally dismiss it as not conveying some kind of info, yet I easily dismiss magazine horoscope stuff, and I don't think there are people if any who have the ability (if it exists) to extract this info, certainly not people who might be getting £5.52 an hour. To kind of quantify astrology in terms of possibility of being able to reveal something, I'd say maybe 1 in a million billion (or something similarly as insignificant).
And biblical (or other religious) texts, well unless its stated literally "the antichrist will come" then its interpretation that is being used and of course this can rapidly parallel astrology significance, but again I can't dismiss it, because surely in some cases, religious texts do have meaning that goes deeper than their literal appearance. Numerically coded info too is interpretation based and so I guess can become as significant as astrology.
Sorry if I appear as too serious/sensitive on this or if I appear to be pooping at the party, but I wouldn't feel right not saying it, so I ask that a distinction be drawn between people who hold tightly onto issues that do border on the ridiculous. (E.g.1: Prince Charles is the beast because “Prince Charles of Wales” evaluates - according to a convoluted numerological assignment - to 666, or E.g.2: that Putin is a rare name and the commander of the Sub in hunt for Red October also had the name Putin so therefore Valdimir Putin equates to nuclear missile renegade therefore Armageddon therefore Putin=antichrist) and those with much more reasonable thoughts on the matter., because one day, according to my beliefs the antichrist will appear and there are 'signs' stated. Its part of the package. Pic ‘n mix isn’t an option. Hope you all understand.
I'm in raptures, reading this...
@lwtc247
I'll be brief as I am supposed to be doing exciting things with soap, sponges and some dirty wallpaper
As I think I've mentioned before I have no particular axe to grind with people of monotheistic faith. Some of the things they believe appear silly to some but IMHO they're no sillier than believing the entire universe appeared spontaneously out of nothing one day, that the universe is held together by hypothetical goo or that life is the result of a few random bolts of lightning
but
I do have an axe to grind with prophets and prophecies
and I don't even need to adopt a secular position to criticise them
both the old and the new testaments make explicit warnings about them
and, more fundamentally, a belief in prophecy (and astrology) contradicts a fundmental principle of the Abrahamic faiths...
We are all individually responsible for our actions
What's the point of teaching people that there is such as thing as right and wrong and that people are born with free will if you are also going to preach that the destiny of mankind was scripted thousands of years ago? And is Satan really so daft that he hasn't read that his Earthly plan has been predicted long in advance and is destined to fail?
Any belief system that has developed to include these kind of paradoxes smacks more of human than the divine inspiration and arguably needs to sort itself out so that it is at least internally consistent
And even if I did believe in the power of prophecy the history of false Messiahs, Anti-Messiahs, and prophecies is so littered with charlatans that even if the real deal appeared tomorrow no-one would be able to know, to really know, that this time things were serious. Common sense and scripture dictate that all such claims should be treated with extreme scepticism. Taking the piss out of wannabee messiahs/ anti-Messiahs is perfectly in keeping with both secular and religious belief systems
There is much deliberate confusion between prophecy and the very human earthly game plans of certain groups of individuals. Taking Christian Zionism as an example I have absolutely no doubt that certain relatively minor, esoteric prophecies have been amplified and promoted over the last 100 years to suit political agendas. And if were a believer I couldn't think of anything more fucked up than trying to hasten the end of the world, effectively forcing God's hand, by acting out and your own particular interpretation of the events that will lead up to the end times
OK, maybe I wasn't that brief...
On the subject of what is arguably the arrogant blasphemy of trying to force God's hands in the Holy Land the beliefs of this group of anti-Zionist orthodox Jews are interesting
lw, I don't think anyone begrudges you your beliefs. However I find it hard to see why anyone should worry about the coming of the anti-christ. After all, we got rid of the non-anti-christ easily enough, didn't we?
If you want to take the idea seriously,as a heavily catholicised agnostic, I would nominate the unholy trinity of capitalism, imperialism and militarism (basically the fascist configuration) as the anti-christ.
Its been walking the earth for some time now.
There's a school of thought that one man's Messiah is another's Antichrist. You don't have to believe in either to see the potential for a lot of conflict and shenanigans caused by the emergence of one (or more) of these characters.
http://www.share-international.org/
maitreya/Ma_wwa.htm
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/
maitreya7.html
I also think the Christianityist/Zionist axis is going to be troublesome in this regard.
The evidence–uncovered by prophecy expert Grant R. Jeffrey–is breathtaking: Jewish authorities are preparing to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem. Quietly they have recovered lost artifacts from the ancient Temple and have recreated sacred worship vessels. The new Sanhedrin, now reconvened in Israel, is training Levite priests to reinstitute animal sacrifice. These remarkable developments have far-reaching prophetic significance.
And that seems to tell Grant Jeffrey that Islam is going to destroy the world. His book "Antichrist" is a right rollicking prophetical read, but a look at his webpage reveals he lost the plot a long time ago.
http://www.grantjeffrey.com/
"dirty wallpaper" ??. Hang on... Right. I've just finished applying the "Prince Charles of Wales" algorithm and 'dirty wallpaper' equates to Samantha Fox! Well, actually it came out to "Gwynedd Dwydf" but the brother of the behemoth came to me and said in a vision that "Gwynedd Dwydf" was actually Samantha Fox's real name.
Anyway...
Sorry if I'm detracting from this thread but...
Critical stances on prophets is perfectly understandable, but I don't see how prophets of monotheism can have those criticisms upheld - there is too much we cannot ever hope to know /understand about them. Modern day prophets? Well heavens knows what would happen to them if as you highlight well, they stopped appealing for tenners to be posted to some PO Box in Canvey island.
Can you elaborate on how belief in prophecy contradicts fundamentals of the Abrahamic faith? I thought it was fundamental to it and runs through ALL mainstream and marginal monotheistic streams.
I don't want to defend astrology but surely to discard the 'heavens' as not containing a sign of the Creator is to claim total knowledge about it {the heavens that is} which surely we have no justification in doing so. However when the moon enters Aries meaning 1/12th the population will find a new love enters your life is dismissible.
I tried not to give the impression that I'm too steamed up about it, and it is good to laugh at oneself and beliefs at times, and certainly at charlatans. But at the same time I feel some beliefs overcome such things.
Re: teaching right and wrong and scripted destiny. An age old question. You remember those fighting fantasy books? Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone? All destinies were mapped out but final destination was up to you (your free will) to determine.
Some pathways lead to doom, some to success some to irrelevance. The last day may be assured (even secular science agrees strongly with that) but its arrival, severity, longevity and total outcome seem to me to allow for the possibility of variation. Not only that but the teaching of right and wrong is relevant to today and the desire most of us have for a happy life, so it's relevance will always have a place with us.
Satan is a creation of God, and angel of fire I'm told, like us seems to have had a degree of free will, with which he seems to have challenged God. Just how intelligent he is, is hard to assess, but he certainly appears to be stupid in many respects as if he was intelligent surely he wouldn't have challenged All Powerful in the first place. But look at us, we believe we are intelligent but how many dumb things do we do - even when old.
Is Satan destined to fail? He has brought man away from the worship of God hasn't he? People have died being and doing evil thiings. God describes sins which will never be released from enduring punishment, and again if there can be variation in outcome and it seems like heaven and hell after the day of judgement will never cease then won't satan/hell also never ends?
"even if the real deal appeared tomorrow no-one would be able to know" That point is embedded in what I've said. To me, religiousness contains an element of agnosticism, or if you like a humility which understands we can never ever hope to know all, because all knowing is a characteristic of God.
"Common sense and scripture dictate that all such claims should be treated with extreme scepticism." Agreed, which is why I appealed for people to discern between frauds as opposed to serious philosophical inquiry.
"Taking the piss out of wannabee messiahs/ anti-Messiahs is perfectly in keeping with both secular and religious belief systems" - LOL. Yes, I must admit it has given me many hours of amusement, which is part of the reason why I love this blog and the Conspiraloon alliance blog. (TM's respected!) but once again, its the fraudsters and shallow thinkers that deserve this satirical rebuke.
And absolutely religion and prophecy has been manipulated every which way but lose, and that rot deserves to be identified and challenged. Trying to hasten the end of the world also seems non-understandable to me too, cos no matter what flavour it is, I'm pretty sure it's gonna taste yuckky! However as we are 'advancing' as a species, it looks like from whatever angle we examine it from, we are doing pretty well at bringing about the end mankind quite well - with religion as an element or not.
I'm not really that steamed up about all this, how could I be with such respected company?, but I wanted to draw attention to the fact I think there gets a point where the laughter will subside and the chin rubbing begins.
Buy Grant Jeffrey's books and learn:
How Russia and the forces of extreme Islam will launch World War II
Prophecies about the past are my favourite.
Can you elaborate on how belief in prophecy contradicts fundamentals of the Abrahamic faith? I thought it was fundamental to it and runs through ALL mainstream and marginal monotheistic streams.
LOL
Definitely - as soon as I've got a couple of months spare and a book deal lined up
in the meantime, I think it's fair to say that anyone who has lived over the last couple of thousand years expecting biblical prophecy to be realised in their lifetime (it's always just around the corner isn't it) must have been dreadfully disappointed
The brand of Christianity I am agnostic about is a code for life which teaches people that they are personally responsible for doing the right thing because it is the right thing - not because you'll get a nice treat at the end of it or because God will blow you away otherwise
btw if I tell a child to stop larking around with a pair of scissors because they will have someone's eye out am I prophesising or am I simply warning about the probable consequences of certain behaviour?
If I spice my 'prophecy' up with a little talk of a bogeyman or a tooth fairy am I charlatan or simply trying to emphasise a point to someone who isn't mature enough to understand what they're doing?
and what should I think about people who claim to follow the teachings of a man who clearly communicated through allegories and parables who concentrate on their interpretation of the literal truth of those teachings rather than their morals?
@tom
thx for the pointer - Grant looks interesting, I'll be heading his way shortly
@ Tom
"There's a school of thought that one man's Messiah is another's Antichrist." Yes I've seen that a number of times. Also agree about the ZioChristian thing (shouldn't forget the Muslim Zionists too!) and I've read a fair bit about (but admittedly not pondered upon the ins and outs of it) those physically working to bring about the doomsday prophecy, however my default reaction is one of wrongness as I've not seen any precedent by the prophets or in the texts that it is something we should be trying to precipitate.
Noted in context to the first bit of your post is the conclusion by Grant Jeffrey that Islam is going to destroy the world. But I think that conclusion is only drawn from a facile knowledge of Islam. Perhaps he OD’s on FOX too much? But let him have his say. If what he’s saying is true, then his rhetoric will stand up to challenge. P.S. A cursory look found this:
The Next World War -- What Prophecy Reveals About Extreme Islam and the West.”
Jeffrey reveals: "Saddam Hussein\'s role in the 9/11 attack on America" {verbatim} LOL.
Yes, I see he has some strange views about WMD's and Saddam etc. It's probably fair to assume he knows very little about Islam.
(My word verification is "hymns", hallelujah!)
Satan is a creation of God, and angel of fire I'm told, like us seems to have had a degree of free will, with which he seems to have challenged God. Just how intelligent he is, is hard to assess, but he certainly appears to be stupid in many respects as if he was intelligent surely he wouldn't have challenged All Powerful in the first place. But look at us, we believe we are intelligent but how many dumb things do we do - even when old.
That's a pretty good way of putting it. It's predestination for Satan, but as a consequence of his free choice. The bible has got warnings about worshipping Satan as God.
As for the antichrist as an individual person, I've no idea. I can see how it would be possible for a human to fulfil the prophecies and "act out" that role though.
"I think it's fair to say that anyone who has lived over the last couple of thousand years expecting biblical prophecy to be realised in their lifetime (it's always just around the corner isn't it) must have been dreadfully disappointed"
Indeed. However we have the privilege of knowing that those in the past were wrong, heh heh! but seriously, we cannot say because of that then present (or future) predications are also wrong. It invites scepticism but assuming religious doomsday (or even supernovae doomsday) befalls us, as time goes on it automatically means that ‘the end is nigh’ has a greater chance of being true. And really, what is left for humanity to do? I cannot see any science or social revolution to spur us on or change the way the planet is (mis)run. Space it too vast and too harsh for us to penetrate. Terraforming is a billion years off. Were stuck here on this little ball to slog it out until our ultimate demise either way. Perhaps it is the meaning of being human that we must not let this overwhelm us but should continually look in the face of adversity and so what we can to improve life for the next generations.
The result of a toss of coin is independent of its history as is I believe the forecasting of the last day, but history allows us to clear away the guff more easily and leave us with some very real possibilities.
"because it is the right thing - not because you'll get a nice treat at the end of it or because God will blow you away otherwise" Fair enough. Dawkins says morality can exist amongst atheists (even Satanists I guess, c.f. honour amongst thieves and all) and it is a reasonable point, but its magnitude and consequent logic can be questioned and one argument from that holds that morality is counterproductive to theism. (and I think this manifests in regimes like BuShism and bLiarism and elitism as well).
As for literal or cryptic meaning, I think that's one large difference between Islam and the other faiths. Islam as far as I've seen it always gives a literal truth, but in addition a subliminal one. Whereas Christian teachings and Judaic teachings to me anyway, seem to rely upon metaphore often in the absence of the literal.
Islam, claims to be for all and 'the' unblemished truth. Its message therefore it must be able to be understood to those without education - which would rely upon the literal as the primary route for acumen.
Aaah the words of Chapman “Consider the lilly”…
I realise in all this, there will be a point at which I won't be able to answer anymore; all belief (and even non-belief) systems can always have another question thrown at them once the point of answer exhaustion has been reached. That is the point at which faith and/or trust in the claim which any particular text will make to being the truth, predominates. Some people have strong faith in atheism.
I agree that things are spiced up with prophecy, and eschatological prophecy seem ten a penny, but the jesters in the courtyard are easily seen.
P.S. how’s the painting going?
Fair enough. Dawkins says morality can exist amongst atheists (even Satanists I guess, c.f. honour amongst thieves and all) and it is a reasonable point, but its magnitude and consequent logic can be questioned and one argument from that holds that morality is counterproductive to theism
I'll stick with Christianity as it's the faith system I know best...
Would Jesus teach me to help someone in distress because...
a) it's the right thing to do?
or
b) it will add points to my 'Get into Heaven' loyalty card and spare me eternal damnation?
And if the answer is b) what does that say about the perceived relationship between Man and God, and belief in an All-Loving (sic.)Creator who rewards self-serving calculation over common decency?
...not painting at the moment, just cleaning
and the answer is slowly :(
Why can’t Jesus teach you to help someone in distress because
c) It is the right thing to do AND you will get something a lot better than a Brucy bonus at the end of it?
or d) it is the right thing to do simply because God says so?
As to the All-Loving God, here is where we may get close to a brick wall (and hence start to move towards faith) in that we haven't the mental capacity to rationalise in our grapefruit sized limited brain, a completely satisfactory answer, and I understand why some may then say 'Ah-ha - because it's a hoax' but human suffering is a consequence of free will. Why God gave us free will or 'did' anything at all like create the universe isn't explainable, but neither is the origins (or continuum) of the universe, life or in fact anything.
There is beautiful information contained in the Quran about the humble bee and embryology and so forth which has been deemed as supplying enough information to personally enable thousands to fosbry-flop over the bar of resistance and onto the cushioning mat of faith, opening peoples eyes to Christianity as well as Judaism.
In fact the Jews of the Hijaz tested Muhammad(saw) with three questions on ancient stories within their texts (See the chapter called the cave) but sadly they couldn't bring themselves to accept he was given divine knowledge about those three points.
Anyway to help you understand why someone like me must not rule out an antichrist, let me give you a snippet (c/o about.com)
Articles of faith (Kalmah)...
Faith in the unity of God
Faith in angels
Faith in prophets
Faith in books of revelation
Faith in an afterlife
Faith in destiny/divine decree
The practice of which are fulfilled by 'the 5 pillars'
Testimony of faith (Kalima)
Prayer (Salat)
Almsgiving (Zakat)
Fasting (Sawm)
Pilgrimage (Hajj)
A believer of Islam or Judaism) cannot argue against any of those principles. The Christians make one very big change and that concerns the unity of God, and each argue over the prophets. Many Christians don't really fast anymore or prey and have lost their faith. But you will notice the prominence of destiny/divine decree and revelation. Hence people who accept monotheism cannot reject antichrist as it is referenced in the scriptures.
As for Pascals gambit, that a set of logic can be employed to encourage belief shouldn’t mean that it is inherently selfish, and I wouldn’t say it opposes common decency (which is increasingly less common) in fact, it seems quite the opposite.
Why can’t Jesus teach you to help someone in distress because
c) It is the right thing to do AND you will get something a lot better than a Brucy bonus at the end of it?
or d) it is the right thing to do simply because God says so?
because (for a believer) d) should be the same as a)
and c) is a cop out, as it fluffs answering a very direct question about primary motivation
my gut feel is that a large proportion of people proclaiming religious faith are driven primarily by a belief that they are buying their way into a favoured afterlife - which basically makes their motivations very similar to people who seek earthly rewards, only with a little less certainty that the rewards actually exist.
my understanding of genuine spirituality is that an act of decency/ love should be worthwhile performing in itself and not because you expect something as a consequence
"because (for a believer) d) should be the same as a)"
I was communicating with someone recently about this issue and it was (once again) conveyed to me that there are various levels of action. But they differ in permittivity/encouraged/discoutaged nature as they do Re:associated reward and punishemnt. Sadly I cannot reproduce this info properly and may have to get back to reporting it to you later about it, but I think the consequence it all was that a) and d) are may not actually the same (errrrm I think!) despite appearing to look the same.
Actually "Hiz-- Ta - rear" (!) people are very good at this kind of logic - I remember them explaining it to me over 10 years ago (hence the 'once again' comment above). But sieve minded me doesn't retain it so well. If you find one, ask them.
I don't think c) is a cop out - it mearly goes beyond the human mode of thinking and that is the imposition of bipolar thinking, something I found myself guilty of when the H-Z T guy was explaining it to me. Once I cleared this yes/no mode of thinking, I grasped a few other concepts more easily.
My primary motication for eating oranges is becasue I love the taste AND it's healthy. Each benefit has equal standing, an analogy the H Tea guy didn't use but is the only thing left in my head right now.
"my gut feel is that a large proportion of people proclaiming religious faith are driven by a belief that they are buying their way into a favoured afterlife - and that is not my understanding of how Christianity is supposed to work" I know what your saying but the human conscience isn't so dead in religious people that altrusim is absent when the right thing is done. It's enormously rewarding in doing the right thing and/or helping people. I don't say "If I pull Ms. Miggins out of the burning coffee shop God will reward me", in fact, if thoughts of Godly rewards do cross my mind, its usually quite some time after the good deed is done and after the feeling of personal pleasure has subsided.
Anyway, I had a good laugh at the Putin demonizer. Any more at hand?
Anyway, I had a good laugh at the Putin demonizer. Any more at hand?
Plenty
details of which will be published in the Conspiraloon Alliance blog in due course
champion :)
The simple answer to any dilemma facing a true devotee of Christ is simple :
"What would Christ do?"
I you don't understand that you never understood what the man Jesus was trying to say and do as radical reformer of mainstream Judaism at the time which was based on sets of laws and rules (along with caveats) which must be followed to appease God. His fundamental re-working was to alter this Man-God relationship.
Mind you the obsession with Messiahs seems to me to be little more than a recreation of childhood matriarchal dependence. World going to shit? Don’t worry Mummy will kiss it better.
"What would Christ do?"
alternatively...
WWJB?
aka "Who would Jesus bomb?"
in the case of some of our evangelical C-Z US brethren
and as for mummy kissing it better, personally I'm not waiting for a Messiah to come along and do that
Madonnna's already on the case
and Bono
and space aliens
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