Saturday, January 10, 2009

Pissing in the Wind

Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed discusses 7/7 and 9/11...




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53 comments:

Anonymous said...

shill

Stef said...

or just someone who believes that he has to put limits on what he says to have any prospect of mainstream penetration

the result's the same, either way

Anonymous said...

Stef, you heard of Andreas von Buelow? Or Ray McGovern?

Stef said...

Any friend of Alex Jones who extols the virtues of LIHOP and 'Blowback' is 100% totally reliable afaic

Stef said...

Yes, I'm lying

Stef said...

The Russians letting the Georgians attack Ossetia before moving in with decisive force straight away is a probable case of LIHOP

The attack on Pearl Harbour might be a case of LIHOP

To believe that 9/11 was a pure case of LIHOP is to credit the alleged perps with either a) a level of competence beyond anything they appear to have been capable of, or b) a seriously indigestible, extra large portion of good luck

Anonymous said...

Well, von Buelow is formerly of German intelligence services and said it was MIHOP, as far as I'm aware. His take was the attack was far too complex and (reasonably) well orchestrated for it *not* to have been an "intelligence" agency op.

McGovern spent 28 years in the CIA as an intelligence analyst so I wouldn't dismiss him too easily either. No, I don't remember what he said about 9/11 but I do find his take on other incidents worth listening to.

Stef said...

I was referring to McGovern, not von B, I should have made that clear

My bad

Anonymous said...

Fair enough, I tend to listen to the useful stuff and filter out anything thats obviously garbage. If I was to exclude people on the basis that they're poor on one event while being good about exposing another I wouldn't have found out as much as I have.

Stef said...

No you can't

which is why Nafeez gets a post here, even though he says a few things I'm personally not happy about

Parabellum said...

@anon: Andreas von Buelow? I think he is someone who once very firmly believed in the Public State, joined it at the highest rank as you rightly state. He never had to acknowledge anything like the Deep State during his time as politician until the collapse of the eastern block. During the "Anschluss" of GDR to the FRG some very shady deals were made. Many people in positions of power in Western Germany were either capitalists or anti-communists and wanted any remains of "communist" GDR either dismantled or for themselves. There were was a attempt by the social-democrats to shed some light into this, to no avail. I guess it was during his stint at a commission he had learn what's going on in his country.

I guess after what he learned there he went over the top. I think, he has no filter, he believes anything is possible. He might have genuine good information, but how could you tell?

Parabellum said...

Oh, I have to point out, he was science minister from '80 to '82. Ten years later he had the first contact with the work of the spooks, while serving the Schalck-Golodkowski commission. I don't think he had contact with the spook-world before.

Parabellum said...

George Galloway on 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Just heard the first 5 minutes, but sounds interesting.

Anonymous said...

Ok, fair enough parabellum. Well, I'm more interested about the here and now at the moment, or at least more recent events post-Cold War.

Stef said...

Just heard the first 5 minutes, but sounds interesting.

which means you would have heard the first straw man argument about conspiracy theorists talking about the twin towers being sucked down by an explosive-induced vacuum two minutes in

because like, yes, that's the first piece of damning evidence we all point to

dishonest twat

the guy behind 'Lenin's Tomb' who's hosting this clip has a track record for this kind of bollocks and has censored discussion on his blog in the past when Loons started getting the better of him

Meanwhile, Galloway's currently busy mixing sense with polarising calls for violence in the context of the slaughter in Gaza...

http://tinyurl.com/86ntex

Stef said...

just to be clear here

I'm personally all for objective debunking of, both official and unofficial, conspiracy bullshit

but the debunking which is pushed in the mainstream media and by officially sanctioned opposition is extremely subjective about which conspiracy bullshit it debunks

and when I hear debunkers revealing their own subjective biases and agendas by telling half truths and creating straw men arguments, well, fuck them, hard

Stef said...

Which reminds me, that BBC 'Conspiracy Files' special on 7/7 conspiracy theories still hasn't been aired

Those noble truth tellers at the state broadcasting company have presumably bumped into one or two unforeseen difficulties in putting their little hatchet piece together

J7T's refusal to take part and refusal to endorse any alternative narratives must really be pissing the producers and their managers off

paul said...

to be fair, 'lenin' is a person I wouldn't disagree with much, he just happens to be committed to an extremely strange organisation which has rather strict rules about what thoughts its members may or may not entertain.

Solidarity of a kind, I suppose.

rob said...

Nafeez is right about one thing.Spreading awareness that the government were involved in the attacks is probably is good as the truth movement are going to get.
By the way the best example of a government shill/gatekeeor type I know is Justin Raimondo AntiWar.com.
Yes folks the Anti war site that regularly asks it readers to donate thousands of dollars so it may continue ops.

The Steyn-Schwartz conspiracy theory that ties in the Bush family with the alleged Saudi government connection to 9/11 is shared by the Tinfoil Hat Left, which claims that the Bush family connections to the Saudis as well as the shadowy "Carlyle Group" and Big Oil, somehow "prove" that "Bush knew." In effect, according to the Reynolds Wrap Left, we bombed ourselves on 9/11.

paul said...

To be fair, it must be hard to construct a programme dedicated to debunking 7/7 counter theses when the best of them refuse to offer any.

All they have is annoying questions!

This leaves them with an official theory (or 'narratve') which has more holes in it than a tramp's drawers, and throws in its its own mind bending conspiracy angle.

If they have to go down that route, it won't be a cf episode anymore, it would end up as one of those boring, old fashioned and career ending investigative documentaries.

rob said...

George Galloway is one of the best ranters out there.
He stated in his rant that 10 million died in ww2,,well fuck George it is reckoned the Russians alone lost more than 20 million.And the 6 million Jew figure is maybe not entirely accurate either.

rob said...

Having listened to George Galloway on 9/11 conspiracy theories,I have to conclude he works for the same company as Justin Raimondo!

I think George and Tony Benn etc Numb Chumsky and the likes are well dodgy fuckers.Anti Establishment Establishment. Paid critics of their employers.Very clever.

rob said...

Afshin Rattansi, Tony Benn

Tony says you have to be patient and impatient at the same time.Definitely senile silly old fucker.

paul said...

A quick scan of what I fondly think of as the cunty neoliberal hard left reveals this gem.
Note the delicious use of 'conflict' as a euphemism for slaughter.

The comments are even more emetic.

As for blairwatch, so incensed by the attack on that nice mr Saakashvili.
Not a peep!
Strange, as their nominal focus is our dynamic mass murdering envoy.

What a bunch of utter fucking wankers.

Stef said...

An interesting article from Mark Ames of The eXile(d) about that nice Mr Saakashvili, those beastly Russians and the fair and impartial Western Press...

How To Screw Up A War Story: The New York Times At Work

Stef said...

@Rob

If you listen to that link I posted...

http://tinyurl.com/86ntex

you'll catch the bit where George gives it to the official narrative with both barrels with his implied threat that the slaughter in Gaza is going to radicalize a whole generation of British Muslim youth and, by implication, create a whole generation of terrorists we should all fear

Stef said...

@Paul

There's a slight chance that I might be partly responsible for that PizzaIDF meme as I was busily posting links to PizzaIDF as comments underneath all sorts of blogs before that cunt Staines made a big thing about it on the Guido Fawkes blog.

I did the same during the attack on Lebanon a couple of years ago but no-one swallowed the bait back then

If I am responsible I'm not entirely sure how I should feel about it. It is a good example of a Banality of Evil but it also trivialises the slaughter

rob said...

"you'll catch the bit where George gives it to the official narrative with both barrels with his implied threat that the slaughter in Gaza is going to radicalize a whole generation of British Muslim youth and, by implication, create a whole generation of terrorists we should all fear"

indeed Stef,
I spotted that.I´m afraid George is looking more like a gatekeeper.Tony Benn,Raimondo, Numb Nuts Chumpsky etc are safety valves of a sort.

where are the honest representatives of humanity.Are there any in the m/m??any at all?

Stef said...

no-one's perfect but names like Michael Parenti, Peter Dale Scott, John Pilger come to mind

of course, if any of them were really effective they'd be dead

Stef said...

It's always worth remembering that someone must be doing something right. A few people do seem to be wising up

Stef said...

... on the money/ economics side of things I believe that Michael Hudson and F W Engdahl are on the button more often than not

Anonymous said...

Hasn't the Austrian school of economics been constantly opposed to a central bank and correctly stated they're the reason for instability\inflation etc?

Stef said...

yup

as has, if you broaden the scope to include usurious creation and elite manipulation of fiat loot, Islam

and Christianity

and Torahaic Judaism

and Marxism

and the brand of Capitalism that most ordinary people refer to when they talk about Capitalism

Actually, when you think about it, there aren't that many belief systems/ ideologies which think it's a very good idea at all

paul said...

I'd add michel chussodovsky to your list, his latest is very disturbing

Neil said...

Speaking of usury and central banks, where can I actually borrow some of this money at 1.5% interest?

Stef said...

From the same people who are going to give you a free share of all that new money that's being created

rob said...

Seems you have to notify the US 72 hrs before you fly.Give them time to Google your name.See if your a trouble maker!or terrurist

British Foreign Office warning that tourists to the USA could be turned away because of new rules.

Stef said...

I used to travel to the States a couple of times a year. Now, I won't even transit through America if there's any way to avoid it

Fuck 'em

Stef said...

I can also remember back to a time when you got more Orwellian shit traveling to and from the totalitarian regimes on the other side of the Iron Curtain than to and from the US or the UK

I also remember thinking that it was a fucked up hallmark of oppressive regimes that you couldn't take pictures of 'official' buildings in those places

That seems like a long time ago now

rob said...

Electronic applications - known as Esta (Electronic System for Travel Authorisation) - have to be approved by the US Department of Homeland Security.

The Foreign Office is concerned that people who may not have heard of Esta and booked their trip before enforcement of the new rule may be caught out
FO spokesperson

Once an application is approved, it will be valid for all visits to the US for a two-year period.

The US Embassy in London said so far 99.6% of the applications have been approved - most within four seconds.

Michael Restovich, from the US Department of Homeland Security, said: "We want to keep the bad people out. We don't want to restrict commerce, we don't want to restrict tourism.

I wonder if you can apply online and see if you get rejected!?

rob said...

here is the link.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/esta/

rob said...

I checked it out.They basically jut ask for then info on your passport,,the same stuff you used to fill out on the plane.

Stef said...

I have already done so recently (for a transit) and wasn't rejected

which must mean that I'm a Good Person

given that I am a US approved Good Person I'm not impressed by the prospect of being fingerprinted though

maybe I can get my hands on some implants

as for my grand denaro tourismo/ comercio, and I've spent a fair few in the Former Land of the Free over the years, they can fucking whistle for it from now on

rob said...

yessiree,
LATEST: George W Bush says risk of attack on US soil will be greatest threat facing Barack Obama. More soon.via the BBC,,

Anonymous said...

It seems people are less generous towards someone about to be made homeless through no fault of his own, than to a person who has a stable job, home, wife, kids etc and is too cheap to provide for his daughter.

I don't understand how so many folk have become this warped..

Stef said...

Whatever generosity there is is going to have to be spread awfully thin

Firms which have gone into administration or confirmed significant job losses just today -

JCB (685), Land of Leather (850), Wincanton (875), Wedgwood (370), Findus UK (420)...

Small beer compared to the 400,000 students who are going to be hitting an empty employment market in the Summer

The UK economy has sailed clear over the cliff edge and is plunging into the abyss

Fuck it, it was a bunch of arse anyway

Stef said...

of course, no-one saw any of this coming...

Stef said...

and I dread top think how bad it would have been if the UK Government hadn't taken 2.5% off the rate of VAT

Anonymous said...

I guess I can look forward to a slow demise through cold and starvation then.

gyg3s said...

The bond bubble is an accident waiting to happen

It's like sitting in front of the guilotine. No matter how dreadful (or in this case stupid) it gets boring after a while.

Stef said...

"Peter Parsons, gas supply manager at Britain’s National Grid said: “We’re close to the point where we’ll have to take emergency-type measures.”"

rob said...

Dubyas last rant

Press Conference by the President Play Video President Bush on Monday said, "And so here at the last press conference, I'm interested in answering some of your questions. But mostly I'm interested in saying thank you for the job."

Anonymous said...

This country lacks sufficient NG storage facilities. So even when we were a net exporter, supplies had to be purchased during periods of high demand (winter) at premium prices.