Monday, January 05, 2009

On not trusting anyone, not even yourself

I think it's fair to say that anyone who has used the Internet has been sucked in by at least some disinfo bullcrap at some point in their surfing

There is, after all, an awful lot of it about

Mind you, there's awful lot of it about in the longer-established media.

I had a jaw-dropping conversation with a couple of people just before Christmas who patiently explained to me that the reason why Jean Charles de Menezes got shot was because he jumped over a ticket barrier and ignored repeated challenges from the police to stop running. They absolutely refused to accept anything different from me

And they never use the Internet

As it happens, I personally believe that the majority of 'serious' mainstream news coverage qualifies as disinformation to some extent or another

but back to the Internet...

I raise the subject of disinfo because I received a couple of emails from chums yesterday morning pointing me towards a video nasty of the alleged aftermath of an Israeli bombing attack in Gaza

The video struck me as being suspect for several reasons

- it was pixelated as fuck
- there was no supporting information about who allegedly took the footage, or where, or when
- the accompanying text on the original hosting site said 'copy available for download spread'

Because I'm a person who has never felt comfortable about giving or receiving commands, the thought of anonymous fuckers who I don't know from Adam urging me to spread/ duplicate/ forward something has the uncomfortable air of a chain letter about it to me

What the Internet was invented for...

As a general rule, if a video clip, or creepy letter, is strong enough I am perfectly capable of deciding whether I'm going to circulate it or not, and to who

And it comes as absolutely no fucking surprise to discover that the video in question was subsequently 'exposed' as a fraud by those reptiles over at Little Green Footballs.

They would be the same reptiles who exposed the doctoring of photos of the Israeli airforce plastering Lebanon in 2006

Lebanon 2006 - before and after 'shopping'. As you can see the impact of the Israeli air attacks has been exaggerated to an outrageous degree by visual trickery

It's a funny game this disinfowar business. Expose a little photoshopping of the aftermath of a Israeli bomb attack and all those cluster bombs, cluster bombs which are still killing people two years on, simply melt away

We should, however, be thankful for the efforts of Little Green Footballs, the Hasbara crowd and all the other shills, cheats and trolls out there.

They're doing us a favour

They're reminding us not to be gullible fuckwits

Just because someone is making noises you want to hear or offering up material that seems to support your pre-existing beliefs that is no reason to throw your critical faculties into the toilet.

If you don't trust this video

...then why the f*** should you trust this one?

If you don't apply the same level of rigour to your own beliefs as you apply to those beliefs you disagree with then you're allowing yourself to become a hypocrite and a fool

And I'm not excluding myself from the list of potential fuckwits.

Like I said, we've all been there and will almost certainly be there again



Merkin said...

Xmas Dinner. Nice.

Interesting conversation, in passing.

We are talking about friends who left Germany before the war.

One of them says 'well the Arabs stopped the rest of the ships coming from abroad'

I asked for substance.

'It was to do with the Arabs wanting the Oil'.

Where did you hear that?

Seems one the family members has been rediscovered as a Jewish Mama.

Prop to follow.

if we have that amongst professional people, no wonder the masses are so easily led.

lwtc247 said...

Why believe anything then? Loon nihilism is destructive and it's played upon by Zio MF's who deliberately manufacture this disinfo crap.

Hand up those who think the Palestinians need to do such crap? It's not as if they can't just set some camera rolling one day and within minutes some act of murder is captured.

Blurring fact and fiction is something Caucasians in positions of power are unparalleled masters of. Nothing has brought more misery to the world then the mindset and machinations of the Caucasians.

Interesting the common thread between 7-7 (inc highly dodgy Luton train station photo), Lebanon (inc blackened smoke clouds) an what I think this video is (I can't watch it due to Nwork restrictions).

It also reminds me of the Brit forces punching and pissing on some hooded Iraqis. Photos which bizarrely enough contained a magic string of alpha numerics that just happened to prove the pics were a set up. Who'd have believed the faker of those pics just happened to ID that number. Equally coincidently after that, Brits throwing Iraqi's off bridges, beating the life of some hotel owners and smashing their heads off squatting toilet basins was really such a big deal after all.

Least anyones nihilism get the better of them, You gotta ask yourself... With any disinfo, what are the consequences that a) It cannot be identified as such and b) that it is accepted as factual and believed.

In the case of 7-7 videos which may or may not be real but don't prove anything anyway, the consequences of b) leads you to support the War OF Terror.

In the case of exposure to any unlikely Palestinian propaganda, the consequence of b) is that you reject the thieving murdering, very unJewish, unReligious, Insane, Global financial controllers.

Isn't the lesson then that believing is some (possible) lies is better than believing in other lies. Even though the fact one may have been lied to highly offensive.

Next Question is, if it is fake, in what sence? Is it a complete fabrication or it is a truthful re-enactment?

I could go on. I could 'protest' in the street having been taught that protests achieve nothing. Damn those who advocate 'peaceful protests' as the only way of trying to stop these things. I get more suspicious of these idiots by the day. Yes, that's some of my nihilism talking, but that nihilism is the avenue to something better - physical acts of civil disobedience, where as before it lead to dismissal of a painful truth.

lwtc247 said...

It is also interesting to note a kind of intolerance by those who reject the official nobbox of the government fairy tale, towards those who don't languish in the realm of ambiguity.

Patsy theorists and Israyhells involved theorists seem particularly vulnerable.

The result of all this? (Intentionally or not) is that only one 'narrative' ever has any longevity. Guess which one that is? And to what size social circle it has for its audience?

Nafeez Ahmad's (again, intentionally or not) 'The London Bombings' in which he gives an almost mutually exclusive blurred vision of some quasi-state terrorist amorphous blob, in which no paths of possibility are explored and in which Israyhells involvement is trivial says a lot about certain types of independent analysis.

To rehash a popular term here... Gatekeeperlicious.

Anonymous said...

That post, Stef, is why I don't pretend to know what actually happened on July 7th 2005. Sure, I can fill in the gaps with a possible theory, but it needs to be proven by more evidence than is currently available.

not anonymous said...

yep it´s always good to double check.Nothing worse than making a cunt of yourself online.
Ogrish as distasteful as the site is,IS, like it or not, a very good resource sometimes.
For the ongoing situation in Iraq and Afghanistan for example you can´t beat it.There are hundereds if not thousands of videos posted there of the conflict in Iraq(mostly from the resistance side)

Edo said...

Hey Stef. Provocative post.
I've definitely been taken in by dis-info on the telly and the net, and it's been one reason why I had to start distancing myself from all of it. It's this bloody "truth movement" if you ask me. Popular movements and truth just don't seem to go hand in hand.
Long before I took an interest in the crimes of the elite, I asked myself the question of whether I believed in ghosts or aliens. I can honestly say all these years later, after having seen many many clips/stories of purported sightings that I would not believe the report of someone else's eyes. It's something I'd need to see for myself.
Applying that logic to Palestine, Iraq or Afghanistan is obviously not in my best interest, so the use of judgement is all I have. Rather than knowing, or being able to prove that what is going on there is what it is, I can surmise. That's enough for me. Fake videos or not, Israel is taking the piss, and the rest of the developed world is standing by doing fuck all.

not anonymous said...

This is NOT a fake video.

WP White Phosphorus over Gaza.

more here on WP

here for comparison.

White phosphorus being used in Fallujah in Nov 2004.

seems the IDF and the US military are made from the same shite.

Anonymous said...

Lord patel points ot that the video is fake only in the context when it happened sense.

rob said...

sometimes I go by the name of not anonymous but I only discovered yesterday that I can be rob!!fuck.

Stef said...

Why believe anything then? Loon nihilism is destructive and it's played upon by Zio MF's who deliberately manufacture this disinfo crap.

How can a suggestion that it is sensible to apply the same critical standards to your own positions as you would do to others be described as a call for nihilism?

Stef said...

Lord patel points ot that the video is fake only in the context when it happened sense.

The video is allegedly of the aftermath of the accidental explosion of Qassam rockets at an Hamas rally

which means that the carnage in the video was self inflicted

by circulating the video people have inadvertently demonstrated the destructive power (sic.) of those rockets and played right into Zionist hands

rob said...

I can be rob too

or anyone I like


rob said...

by circulating the video people have inadvertently demonstrated the destructive power (sic.) of those rockets and played right into Zionist hands

yep.The rockets are of course deadly if they hit the target.Hamas is probably full of Israeli intelligence people that are initiating these rocket attacks,, that are worse than fuckin useless thereby giving the Israelis the excuse to keep on bombing.Hamas is probably even driven or shadow managed by Israel to keep the conflict going,,,a few top men in Hamas are probably bought and paid for by Israel.Its all a fuckin sham.The civilians and soldiers, policemen,etc etc are getting the shitty end of the stick as always.
I´m tellin you Hamas Hezlbolla etc etc are more than likely shadow managed by Israel to demonize the Palestinians.Al Quaeda etc etc a bit like a military ponzi scheme,,weapons dealers love this shit.

not anonymous said...

ok Im going back to being not anonymous!I´m the real rob guv.

Stef said...

I´m tellin you Hamas Hezlbolla etc etc are more than likely shadow managed by Israel to demonize the Palestinians.Al Quaeda etc etc a bit like a military ponzi scheme,,weapons dealers love this shit.

well yes - but to different degrees in different organisations

I understand that the suspicion of infiltration is one of the reasons why Fatah has done badly in recent elections

Given its cellular structure and the quality of the arse kicking it delivered a couple of years ago I'd suspect Hezbollah less so

This guy is of the opinion that the key objective of the current round of slaughter is to convince the Hamas leadership to reach some kind of, um, accommodation with the Israelis

I've mentioned this before recently but Peter Dale Scott makes the point that people who resist should be wary of placing all their faith in a leadership which can be taken out or co-opted

rob said...

Hamas and the IRA then would be a fair comparison?
It´s almost a certainty that Hamas at the highest levels have double agents entrenched.Hamas firing rockets at Israel is a pathetic and desperate and any Hamas fighter would know "das bringt nichts"
If Israel wanted to they could roll in the tanks and flatten the place causing mass civilian deaths.
I personally think this continued Israel operation is designed to crush the will of the Palestinians and destroy the infrastructure.The end game??the Israelis are probably hoping the the Palestinians will give up and fuck off somewhere else like millions have done in Iraq

Anonymous said...

What is next for Gaza? - 4 Jan 09 - Part 1

lwtc247 said...

@ Stef
"How can a suggestion that it is sensible to apply the same critical standards to your own positions as you would do to others be described as a call for nihilism?" It isn't a call not to scrutinise. It's about after that. Perhaps I didn't express it well enough.

If we have come to 'believe nothing save for light of proof' regarding the establishment output, then apply that same standard to counter-establishment 'culture' or media, the nihilism door opens.

One walks through the doorway if one lets unanswered questions arising from critical analysis, prevent consequential acceptance or rejection of the material in front us. Subsequent fence-sitting avoids positive or negative consequences because it cannot, does not, or will not draw displacement based conclusions. Progress by tentative adoption of a blueprint is dead in the water. That seems like nihilism to me.

Fence-sitting it seems, is fast becoming a panacea and marks a switch-off point of critical thinking. Indecision often tries to induce different lines of reasoning into the same abyss, or simply by launching a series of attacks, or increasingly boringly these days 'clever quips', to discredit and collapse diversity and discussion.

It is unsightly when one does not accept or reject (albeit with possible reservations) material to allow for its passage, when the outcome of doing so would be positive, especially when that positivism is in favour of legitimate resistance movements.

Of course everything should be questioned. I trumpet that call even in respect of what I regard as the only truth... Islam.

It' what do you do afterwards that counts. {c.f. peaceful demonstrations}

I mentioned before fence-sitting for some signals the end of critical thinking. Few people I have come across keep going after this point.

e.g. If the footage is from a Qussam rocket laded lorry exploding, then in many people eyes, that's it. Video dismissed. But rare is the person who then asks... so who was it that said it was of the January 2009 slaughter of Palestinians in the first place? {c.f. Niger yellowcake forgeries..., Al Jazeera memo..., BBC reporting Saddam tested a Nuclear weapon, Curveball...}

And of course, what comes after that? A media centre is accused of passing out lies. If that centre is Palestinian the Palestinians are called liars. If the ZioMF's did it (as usual no consequences befall them) then they are now able to pass GENUINE media through it and it gets labels as Zionist disinfo.

But don't worry, there aren't teams of people paid to conduct a war of twisted disinfo.

Everything's dandy.

Stef said...

I do not believe that it is fair to describe someone who sticks to reasonable rules of evidence as sitting on any fence

And do you honestly think that the point of view and approach I argue for is Evil Bastard friendly?

Stef said...

But I would I agree with you in one way

Yes, I do detest certainty and absolutism in situations where I believe it to be unjustifiable - which is much, but not all, of the time

ziz said...

"by circulating the video people have inadvertently demonstrated the destructive power (sic.) of those rockets and played right into Zionist hands"

Of course the stroy doesn't end there.

We now know that a genuine video of an actual event was deliberately posted under a false description so that the evil Zionist little twats hiding (?) as TW9zc2Fk could then "expose" the own goal in 2005 by Hamas.

Now I would say that on the balance of benefits that leaves the Talmudic scholars trailing in the cyberwars.

... and alerts future blogistes to be much more careful .. not a bad lesson to learn when dealing with that murderous crew.

Of course the reluctance of the MSM to delve into the internet webby bloggy thingy means that those aware both of the fraud and it's exposure is , in global terms not worth a gnat's fart.

It is of course instructive that these frauds can and are exposed with remarkable speed.

Stef said...


like I said, on balance, I reckon they've done us a favour as long as we learn the lesson

or rather, in the case of those of us who've been at this for a while, relearn the lesson

Parabellum said...

Rob: The end game??the Israelis are probably hoping the the Palestinians will give up and fuck off somewhere else like millions have done in Iraq

Wouldn't work. Even if they were willing to leave, who would take up the millions of Palestinians? Egypt? Hell no. Lebanon? Syria? Jordan? Iraq? The Saudis? Europe? America?

Iran might be the only country to take a substantial number, but then again they are not stupid and it would not be the right thing to do. Iran would refuse to have the burden placed on its shoulders while Israel takes the price - all of Palestine.

No, the only solution for peace is for Israel to give up its apartheid shit, become a normal country like all the others and have different people living there in relative peace. Granted, the jews would be the minority there, but a strong minority - there are people who have a worse fate. Being a non-apartheid country works reasonably well in most countries (unless of course some other country wants to fuck up things like the US in Yugoslavia - but that is a different topic).

Stef said...

I doubt very much if it would stop with an ethnically cleansed Gaza anyway

Israel is home to awful lot of thirsty swimming pools

Anonymous said...

Fortunately, Hezbollah stopped the Israeli advance dead before they got to their prized Litani river in Lebanon. Men with anti-tank missiles > tanks, it seems.

Stef said...

That's the Dirty Little Secret of the MIC isn't it

Desperate people armed with cheap missiles usually are > vastly more expensive Tanks/ Jets/ Ships operated by the not so desperate

Anonymous said...

I've been hearing rumours that the Iraqi tank hunters have gotten hold of tandem warhead weapons, which literally punch holes through vehicles like they weren't there. According to a returning tank US crewman several dozen armoured vehicles were lost in the space of a month.

While I can't confirm this off hand as I don't have pictures of them, it wouldn't suprise me if it was true.

Stef said...

The Doctrine of Asymmetrical War By Gary Brecher

There's also a book called The Baroque Arsenal...

"Modern military technology is not advanced," Mary Kaldor writes on the first page; "it is decadent." This theme pervades a book which sees weapons, rather than their users or the incentives for acquisition, as the culprit. Today's overly sophisticated arms are viewed as remote from military and economic reality: they are often incapable of achieving even limited military objectives, and they erode the economies of the United States and other nations-both arms producers and buyers. Many will find this perspective overly simple and apolitical, but the author's intellectual verve and courage are to be admired.

which is long out of print but shouldn't be

Anonymous said...

Well yes that book does make an interesting point. For example bad or poor maintainence alone can totally wreck a modern armament.

Nevermind that despite 90 years of "progress" a tank can still be rendered useless by a thrown track...

Sometimes modern weapons are made too complex for their own good.

I definitely agree with these too:

5. "Hearts and Minds," meaning propaganda and morale, are more important than military superiority.

6. Most people are not rational, they are TRIBAL: "my gang yay, your gang boo!" It really is that simple. The rest is cosmetics.

Even I'm probably "tribal" to some extent...

rob said...

Tracking the war in Gaza

Tracking the war in Gaza

Anonymous said...

a very busy lwtc247

I do not believe that it is fair to describe someone who sticks to reasonable rules of evidence as sitting on any fence - I didn't say that - in either post. If one applies the same rules as praiseworthy loons have done over 7-7 <-- I draw this comparison in synergy with tthe article, then fence-sitting would be the 'same as' outcome about this video and any other future material like the Qassam video above.

In solidarity with that view the same caution should be adopted in respect of advocates of Marx, as it should be over people who accuse the Rothschilds and other capitalists in the world, or even shady creatures like Peter Power.

But it isn't.

The writings of cheerleading Marxists hardly never get treated with caution, being put in the 'please remain here for processing' room, either is material which purport to reveal Rothschild latest oppressive dealings. Or the 'bankers' who strangely never seem to have names. Or Peter Power who lets be honest is very likely to be involved in illegal behaviour as a police officer and at best a stooge in the murder of 7-7.

But my argument is, that is to a degree, excusable because the result of bypassing cautionary filters (or lowering the 'alert' level) would assist a valiant cause.

That's what I said.

So, while we should be cautious about disinfo, when we come across material that suits the greater good, there is an argument to give it the benefit of the doubt. And taking the case of this Qassam video at face vale, it is exactly this which actually happened.

If we have taken onboard a falsehood, then that needs to be followed up. And that is certainly the case here. Who said it was Jan 09 footage? Who Who! Who!!? I can't believe someone originally saw that footage with no description of what it was about and somehow came to believe it was an IDF act of murder which took place a few days ago. That's a preposterous scenario.

What is more likely is some Zio Scum deliberately ascribed the footage as being of Jan 09. Stuck the worm on a line and cast it out.

Which is exactly what a straw man/disinfo cell would pump out. Not that any exist of course! And nothing they have ever done, inc. this, has ever proved a success. Oh no. Perish the thought.

Which media outlet was the 'wrong connection' first hosted on? Magnify was it? Oh, and it it was, or whatever host it was on, there's a cat's chance in hell that some Zio frek money will be behind it. Oh no. Institutions like the ADL don't do such things, neither do they pay people to brief journalists or get editors/executives to sack anti-Zionists.

But noone gives a toss about all this, and now, because of this case, people are being told to be suspicious about any future supposed anti-Israyhell media.


In context of J7...
The people behind J7 deserve the utmost praise for their efforts and for pushing slimy govt into at least expending a few nanoJoules of energy begrudgingly going through some motions of trying to find out and discolose some information about the murderous events of that day. J7 list possible theories about events of that day as it is surely impossible for any serious investigation not to.

IMO, J7 do sit on the fence about a likely explanation. The approavh has yielded results. However I believe the usefulness of that approach as expired. And whilst not privvy to the progress of J7 independent investigation, I'd be very much surprised if it hadn't ground to a halt, and has done for some time now.

With increasing amounts of evidence, likely to be laced with govt disinfo (that is proved already), and JCdM type establishment lies, then to ignore where the evidence points is wrong.

What IS unfair, is that for people whom feel the burden of evidence allows them to point fingers, to have fence-sitters act in a hostile fashion towards them, showing intolerance and ridicule to difference of opinion. Nobody holds a right to 'name' a suspect in exclusion of all others, just because someone else's personal bar of suspicion has been surmounted.

Which loons pretend to know what happened on J7? That's an obvious reference to people whose CURRENT position based on the information they believe points in a certain direction.

Craig Murray pulled a similar non-sequitur when someone recently wrote on his blog, quizzing the official story of the holocost. Murray held him(or her) up as being someone who in effect didn't believe any Jews died in the camps.

That's the danger of extrapolating outside the data set... You end up somewhere obscure and irrelevant.

So in regard of 7-7, Israyhell is once again gifted a magic cloak of non-culpability.

Hourray for Israyhell.

As with this video, Israyhell gets off scott free.

And please, apply caution, scrutiny, openness, context, self-analysis and reference to my past posts when reading this comment.