Tuesday, February 13, 2007

Even More Urban Myths

As a commentator on the previous post has just reminded me, by some strange quirk of Google's indexing algorithms, a Google search for the name of BBC Newsnight star reporter 'Mark Urban' lists this blog as number two in the results listings

Amusingly higher than even the BBC's own site.

The reason why Mark Urban's name came up in conversation just now was because he was on Newsnight last night talking about the supposed Iranian manufactured weapons discovered in Iraq that I mentioned in my previous post. During his report he said something along the lines of

'the munitions carried marks that confirm they were recently manufactured in Iran'

Now, on the off-chance that Mark ever gets round to Googling his own name and bumps into this blog (Hello Mark. It's me again) here's a question for him...




How do markings printed on a Western standard calibre mortar round, written in English and conforming to Western not Iranian dating conventions prove that the round was recently manufactured in Iran? And while we're at it, what the fuck are you paid for? To uncritically parrot everything you are told by 'unnamed senior security sources' or to do some elementary research before passing that crap off as news and in-depth analysis?

and a bonus question

Just how much fucking Horlicks do you have to drink before you can get to sleep at night?

-

And whilst plugging selected names into Google and seeing if my blog crops up in the results listing imagine my delight at discovering that this blog is now the fourth site listed in a Google search for NETCU - the National Extremism Tactical Coordination Unit.

Unlike Mark U. I'm not paid hods to draw attention to myself and I'm really, really beginning to wish that a) my name was a little more common than it is and b) I hadn't been stupid enough to use it for my frickin' blogspot address...


.

19 comments:

Anonymous said...

Mark Urban is a repeater: "everyone knows that mate!" [youtube 1:54]

Richard said...

Kurt Nimo is right behind you on this BS - http://kurtnimmo.com/?p=765

Stef said...

@richard - thanks for the Nimmo link, I hadn't seen it

@anon - don't you just wish Icke would dump the lizard thing...

Anonymous said...

"the lizard thing..." it would help. Perhaps it was a metaphor?

Something else that may interest you - THE AUTHORITY TRAP.

It brought to mind your 'queuing at airports' post.

Tony said...

I really hate to rain on this...

81 mm HIGH EXPLOSIVE & SMOKE

"Both HE and smoke types of 81 mm Mortar Bombs have a symmetrically streamlined steel body with a welded steel eight-fin tail unit screwed to the rear end. A primary cartridge fits into the end of the tail tube and increment charges can be clipped into the fins."

www.diomil.ir/en/amig.aspx?search_id=mb81smoke

Yes, the markings look a bit different, but they are in English and I am still not convinced that Farsi markings would help an Arabic speaking Iraqi insurgent whether he is Shiite or Sunite, not to mention the Kurdish or forgein insurgents...

My point: This does not prove anything. If somebody claims, based on this "evidence", that these mortars did or did not come from Iran, they are talking very thin air.

I understand the point you want to make (and I think you are right) that Mark Urban and the rest are not even interested in verifying the official theory, but I think you should attack Mark because this "evidence" does not prove anything. In my opinion, you should be a bit more careful when you try to prove something which by design (of the US spin doctors) is neither provable nor disprovable, like this "evidence" we are presentend by the officials.

Stef said...

@Tony

My point is, and I don't think I've changed it, that absolutely no evidence has been given to tie that round's country of origin to Iran

In spite of that, British reporters on the BBC and in the Daily Telegraph are saying that there is.

Which makes them either incompetent, liars or mere 'repeaters'

If you re-read my open question to the Newsnight guy it says...

How do markings printed on a Western standard calibre mortar round, written in English and conforming to Western not Iranian dating conventions prove that the round was recently manufactured in Iran?

I'm not the one stupid enough to make any categoric claims based on such shaky evidence. My issue is how could anyone else be?

I just tried downloading the relevant segment of yesterday's edition of Newsnight but that part of the program is 'Not available due to copyright reasons'...

Stef said...

... and Devil's Advocate is still my favourite game ;)

Not a bad movie either

Tony said...

Sorry, I didn't pay enough attention and misread that quote of yours. The reason why I should not read blogs at work :-)

Tony said...

Wow, that David Icke bloke is good. I don't care about lizards, but is he good or is he good?

wodge said...

Was the Daily Telegraph journalist called Con Coughlin by any chance?

Stef said...

@wodge - now that is an interesting link/ story. Ta

Stef said...

re. but is he good or is he good?

surely you meant to ask

is he God or is he God?

http://tinyurl.com/3xp4ua

Anonymous said...

Actually Iran DOES produce 81 mm mortar launchers and mortar bombs. They can be seen here:

http://alaskafreepress.com/msgboard/board/661

The images are hyperlinked to the manufacturer's pages at diomil.ir. Just click on the pics and you'll be taken to the relevant pages at that site.

The whole proposition "Iran does not produce 81 mm mortars or ammo" is becoming the urban myth. It's completely false and a result of shoddy, half-baked research not worthy of a ninth-grader. The Iranians certainly do produce those items.

Mark Konrad

Stef said...

Hi Mark

On the subject of shoddy research...

Maybe a ninth grader would have read the post and the associated comments before essentially making a point that's already been made

My point was that there is nothing about the round in the briefing, including its calibre, that ties it uniquely to Iran

That observation stands

Stef said...

Alternatively, I could point to Kurt Nimmo's site

http://www.kurtnimmo.com/?p=766

Where he goes into a lot of detail to essentially say 'One web page on the Internet does not exactly qualify as conclusive evidence"

But why bother? The significance of the 81mm calibre to me is the fact that it is a Western standard and could just as easily have come from the West as the East. It proves fuck all and I'm sick to fucking death of people lying through their fucking teeth to start fucking wars.

Anonymous said...

Hi Stef,

The attack and invasion of Iraq is illegal. Any attack on Iran is illegal. However there are ill-advised people all over the net making the point "Iran does not even manufacture 81 mm launchers and ammo, therefore this proof trotted out by the u.s. government is not valid."

Well, in fact they they do manufacture them, but...

The mortar bombs and other armaments recently displayed as "evidence" by the u.s.government are of course highly dubious as to proof of Iranian involvement. But I'm fuck all tired of hearing that idiotic argument quoted above and splashed all over the net. It is patently false. Nimmo got caught in a poorly researched "expose" that is hinged on that incorrect proposal and now he's scurrying to cover his ass. It would be quite easy to say "oops, I got it wrong, disregard the piece. Sorry." That's what grown-ups do. But he won't do that. He continues with the silly examination of trace-routes and whois information on website holders. Pity he didn't put that much effort into his original research.

The Iranian armaments, both ammo and launchers can be clearly viewed at the sites below. It appears you haven't visited them:

http://www.diomil.ir/en/amig.aspx (Ammunition)

http://www.diomil.ir/en/aig.aspx (Armaments)

Be patient -- both are very slow to load.

Mark

a sane voice in a mad world said...

[b]Tony[/b] said: "they are in English and I am still not convinced that Farsi markings would help an Arabic speaking Iraqi insurgent whether he is Shiite or Sunite, not to mention the Kurdish or forgein insurgents..."

Well Tony, Farsi, Kurdish and Arabic have similar scripts, and many common words. In fact since Iran is an Islamic Republic run by , it uses Arabic in many transactions. It would make more sense to mark in Arabic.

a sane voice in a mad world said...

[b]Tony[/b] said: "they are in English and I am still not convinced that Farsi markings would help an Arabic speaking Iraqi insurgent whether he is Shiite or Sunite, not to mention the Kurdish or forgein insurgents..."

Arabic, Farsi and Kurdish have similar scripts and many common words. And the Ayatullahs know and have encouraged Arabic.

Stef said...

Mark

Did Nimmo make an error by claiming that Iran did not make 81mm rounds?

Yup

Did I repeat that error?

Nope

In this post I make no mention of the 81mm vs 82mm issue. In my previous post the only point I was trying to make is that 81mm is a Western standard calibre and that round could therefore have easily been made in the West

At no point have I claimed that 81mm rounds are categorically not made in Iran.

So why do you make a comment that reads like it is pulling me up for shoddy research including lines like

"Actually Iran DOES produce 81 mm mortar launchers and mortar bombs."

when I never made such a claim?

If you want to make a comment about Nimmo making a balls up in how he phrased things I'd agree entirely but I'd appreciate it if you'd make it clear that you're talking about Nimmo rather than YT. It was a foolish claim to make and not at all key to demonstrating how shoddy that briefing was