Thursday, July 09, 2009

...and back to Michael Parenti

Michael Parenti - the quintessential pinko commie subversive

As an antidote to all that bullcrap from the BBC I've been linking to recently, here's me re-linking to a couple of talks by Michael Parenti which I consider to be absolutely essential listening for any budding Conspiraloons out there...

  • The JFK Assassination and the Gangster Nature of the State - Part 1 - Part 2

Parenti is essential listening because his ideas break out from the narrow confines of what currently constitutes 'permissable' political discourse

Parenti is a very robust and articulate spokesperson for those of us who believe that...
  • there is such a thing as an elitist class
  • there is such a thing as an elitist class interest
  • that elitist interest is pursued with sometimes deliberate, sometimes covert, intent
It goes without saying that those of us who hold the above parapolitical beliefs are currently dismissed as lunatic, whackjob conspiracy theorists

...very often by newspapers and television stations that are owned or controlled by that non-existent elitist class which has no vested elitist class interest and which pursues its non-existent interests completely in the open with total respect for all human life.

Sad to say, I'm unaware of any heavyweight British academics of Parenti's quality. Come to think of it, there aren't many North American ones either. Peter Dale Scott comes to mind

None of the above constitues an unqualified endorsement of Parenti. He advocates some views and solutions I personally disagree with but his analysis of the socio-economic structure of our current system is bang on the money imho


And whilst bigging up pinko commie subversives it's also worth mentioning a particular meme that's been doing the rounds on the conspirasphere since the current economic crisis entered a more overt stage...

That is the idea that, through the banking bailouts, the British and US governments are imposing Communism on their people via the back door

Hmmmmmmmmm, I'll just scratch my chin pensively for a second or two there

Maybe if the British and US governments were nationalising profitable businesses and putting them completely under state control then, yes, that could be a form of Communism

But what is actually happening is that the British and US governments are handing over stonking amounts of public cash, cash that will take generations to tax back off people, to the bankers in exchange for absolutely fuck all, and certainly no publicly-accountable control

That's as good an expression of Corporate Fascism*, not Communism, as you're ever likely to see

What's going on here is an awful lot of middle-class conservatives can see that they're getting buttfucked but cannot bring themselves to acknowledge that it's the very system they've endorsed all these years that is being harnessed to do the buttfucking

ergo, it must be communist in some way

yeah, right

hmmm, much cognitive dissonance

We didn't have genuinely free markets before the current crash got under way and they are not being replaced by communism. We lived under a oligarchical kleptocracy before the crash and we still live under a oligarchical kleptocracy after. The New World Order is the just the same as the Old One. It's just a tad more overt these days, that's all

I'd be the first person to acknowledge that populist concepts such as socialism, or environmentalism, or even religion get hijacked and subverted to suit elitist, totalitarian ends but that doesn't mean that ideals such as enviromental awareness, a desire for social justice or the natural human tendency for spirituality are intrinsically evil; even if some right evil bastards take control of them sometimes

There is, unfortunately, plenty of scope to get downhearted and depressed about the apparent power of the interests that would screw us all over and the flaws in the infilitrated movements which claim to oppose them but, fuck it, it's how we respond to the challenges in Life which define and shape who we are.


* = of course, according to some right wing loons, Fascism doesn't actually exist and all Bad Things that have been attributed to Fascism in the past are, in truth, Socialist. Take this comment recently seen on The Antagonist's blog for example...

"Talking of 'fascism' (a term you throw around with the abandon of a child with a toy) do a little research, comrade, and you'll discover that both Mussolini and Hitler were socialists. Not to mention Stalin, Mao and all the other squalid little regimes around the world that have caused the world so much suffering. They've probably notched up a good 250 million murders at least between them. Talk about state oppression!"

Yup, neither Mussolini nor Hitler were fascists. An outstanding expose of Real™ History

here's another fucking commie to add to the list




Anonymous said...


I agree that Parenti is pretty much essential reading for those of us that don't mind the view through the looking glass - and for a historical piece I'd recommend his Assasination of Julius Caesar/People History of Ancient Rome.

Would like to see Parenti comment more extensively on 9/11 - like Peter Dale Scott has.

It many interest you to know that I recently quoted from the Kevin Cahill book you link in my own take on the C-word.


Anonymous said...

Wow, it's 250 million now! That number's getting bigger at every mention. Shall we open a book on when it'll reach the magic billion?

Incidentally, if Hitler was a socialist, presumably his ally *Emperor* (yes Emperor) Hirohito must have been one as well. Yep. Makes perfect sense...

Stef said...

that would all depend on what your take on the flu thing, its origins and probable 'effectiveness', is

and on the subject of swine flu, comedy gold from the NZ Herald...

Police recruit positive for swine flu

Anti_NWO said...

Stef, have you heard of Alan Watt?

paul said...

Alan Watt A person of interest

GCN regular, many dvd's to sell

Alan has put together a video you can view entitled "Reality Check."
It is approximately 1 1/2 Hrs. of De-Programming.
May not be for those in the Land of Nod or those comfortable in the Holding Pen.

Now that's what I call marketing

Anti_NWO said...

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. If I made my living from "conspiraloon" material that was well put together would that be a problem? Nobody forces you to buy these peoples' DVDs do they now?

paul said...

May not be for those in the Land of Nod or those comfortable in the Holding Pen

This suggests his audience are in the know, who hardly need deprogramming, when those he disparages should be his real target.

I think he's just a niche entertainer, serving up a heady,deadening mix of militarism,the occult (of which there seems to an abundance of information on) and pre apocalyptic food storage.

Like may entertainers, he's rather bitchy about his peers: icke, zeitgeist etc, even though I can't see much qualitative difference between them.

I say deadening because I think the non stop mish mash of every kind of powerful evil telling, tends to demoralise one a bit.

I beleive its referred to as 'revelation of the method' and might be one more dastardly trick on us all

Nobody forces you to buy these peoples' DVDs do they now?

Certainly not, but then i've never quite been able to imagine what kind of people do, or what they do afterwards.

here's some ex fans of alan's

It's really quite funny.

Anti_NWO said...


I say deadening because I think the non stop mish mash of every kind of powerful evil telling, tends to demoralise one a bit.

I beleive its referred to as 'revelation of the method' and might be one more dastardly trick on us all

Yes, I hear that, but arguably I'm also guilty of being overly negative and to some extent a "prophet of doom". It is easy to point out others' flaws and not notice your own. That said, I am aware that quite a few "conspiraloons" are getting sloppy in their reporting\material.

The truth will set you free, as the saying goes...

Out of interest do you recommend any particular authors\speakers?

Anonymous said...

Off topic, but I had to chuckle when I read this headline on the bbc news webshite:

"World powers accept warming limit

Developed and developing nations agree global temperatures should not rise more than 2C above 1900 levels, a G8 declaration says."

This type of hubris would put King Cnut to shame. The assumption implicit here, is that all global warming is purely anthropological, and therefore, somehow controllable. The mind boggles.

Stef said...

re. Watt

I agree with Paul's take on this character

and, judging by the comments on the thread Paul links to, so does at least one other visitor to this blog

and this may sound like a trivial thing but I find the cadence and tone of his delivery creepy and unsettling

and he does talk an awful lot of bollocks

I've had a few people drop notes to me over the years telling me how depressed and disheartened they are by the journey of discovery they're embarked on

Listening to characters like Watt ain't going to help

As I tagged onto the end of the body of this post, I believe that it is how we deal with the challenges we face that shape and define who we are. I've also reminded people in the past that something as simple as going for a walk on the beach or giving, and maybe receiving back, a simple act of human kindness or love is all that it takes sometimes to reconnect with just how wonderful our existence is. I could go on but I'm not saying anything original or blindingly insightful here

Stef said...

When I was a teenager my two most cherished books were 'Catch-22' and Kafka's 'The Trial'

Both contain a similar theme of a sane individual being subject to the oppressive and murderous whims of an insane world

Catch-22 is funnier and, crucially, peppered with reminders of why its central character wants to live

As a middle-aged adult I've given up on considering The Trial as one of my favourite books and have concluded that it's a shame that Kafka didn't have a chance to get out more

Stef said...

"World powers accept warming limit"

It's all getting a bit desperate isn't it?

A bit like the recent upurge in mainstream Loon-bashing we've seen in the UK

There's that almost palpable sense that all sorts of mainstream narratives and fairytales are very near to the end of their serviceable life

A state of affairs which can be viewed as a Very Good Thing or Very Bad Thing, depending on whether you've had a pleasant walk on the beach or not beforehand

So, what's the future then? Mad Max or Star Trek?

f***ed if know

Edo said...

I'm pretty sure some of the recent comments have been about me, having been through 'the journey' and asking advice from people like yourselves along the way.

I can say with some certainty that we'll never know the truth of everything. Especially when we have our micro goggles on. People like Parenti (and a select few others) give us an insight into the macro view. It's at this point theories about who controls who and what the endgame is that opinions start differing wildly. From Alex Jones, Icke, Maxwell, Watt, Tsarion (you all know the list) it is easy to get sucked into:

A: devout cult adoration of said 'leaders'
B: their view of the world

I've come to the conclusion that the bullshit/plausable ratio of the mainstream conspiraloons is about 40/60. There's a tump of evidence to suggest these movers and shakers in the conspirasphere need to use the tools of their subjects, that is, the NWO, to keep their audience frozen in the headlights, and tuned into their particular shows.

Being that frightened really doesn't do anybody any good.

I'm that chap Stef refers to (I think) that found value in walking on a beach. That's where I get my macro view.

Edo said...

I was rather pleased when Andre, the owner of Outlaw Forum, got in touch the other day and told me that he'd bought some plane tickets. I'd been trying to encourage him to go travelling for nearly a year.

Stef said...

I'm that chap Stef refers to (I think) that found value in walking on a beach. That's where I get my macro view.

you're not the only one, there's plenty of us out there

but you do take a nice beach photo

agree very much with your take on things

and good for Andre


paul said...

The truth will set you free, as the saying goes...

If only that were true...historically, it seems actions set you free.

Antiloons such as the SWP have been furiously working out how to do this longer than I have been sentient.

Though this does question a central antiloon directive, that CT is 'comforting', a retreat from the difficulties of 'life'.(If so, I would be asking for my money back).
CT's cannot deal with complexity, according to this line of smear.
While I find the society extremely complicated, I do not find it complex.

Out of interest do you recommend any particular authors\speakers?

Off the top of my head:
Celine,Philip k dick,jg ballard, herman melville, honore de balzac,jk galbraith, victor hugo,sinclair lewis, upton sinclair, george orwell, buckmister fuller, eldridge cleaver, c wright mills, danté, vance packard,marshall macluhan, devo, g.k chesterton, joseph heller, william burroughs, erving goffman,robin ramsay,michael hudson, glasgow media group, adorno, david harvey.

No doubt there are plenty of others,but that's enough to be getting on with.
all of the above have struck me as truthful, and most are very old indeed.

My brother lamented the other day that it's increasingly hard to be a know all these days. People are tethered to wikipedia by their iphones and just look everything up.

This led me to the conjecture that the interweb is an excellent synthetic medium, but god help us if the wellsprings dry up.

The truth is indeed out there, in the open, always has been. But what to do with it is another whole box of crazy, and the joker in the old world order's pack.

paul said...

I also heartily commend karol capek's RUR and 'war with the newts' and the pulpily brilliant space merchants by kornbluth and pohl and tom frank's one market under god and who goes there by jw campbell and alas all thinking by harry bates and shrinking man by richard matheson and I really should stop going on.

Stef said...

on the subject of counterloons, Monbiot is having a bit of a Sad...

...Considering the lengths to which these companies have gone to insert themselves into publications where there is a risk of exposure, it is inconceivable that they are not making use of the Guardian's threads, where they are protected by the posters' anonymity. Some of the commenters on these threads have been paid to disseminate their nonsense, but we have no means, under the current system, of knowing which ones they are...

it must be a conspiracy George

Stef said...


no, keep going, I'm scribbling in my little notebook furiously

Stef said...

and remember boys and girls, shilling and keyboard monkery is used solely and exclusively by Big Tobacco and Big Warm in their titanic struggle against the otherwise unbeatable genius of George Monbiot.

These tactics are never employed on 9/11 and 7/7 internet forums. All bollocks found on these sites is the real deal and fair game to be quoted as being representive of all conspiracy theorists by mainstream journalists such as, er, George Monbiot

fuck me, getting paid to piss George off, where do I sign up?

paul said...

If you've run out by 2012, I'll be happy to add more, but unfortunately the grim, inexorable forces of materialism are commanding me to fix a leaking tap.

paul said...

...while he may have had more than one kangaroo loose in the top paddock, ezra pound's abc of reading is worth a look.

paul (the other one) said...

"So, what's the future then? Mad Max or Star Trek?"
hmmm, I wonder where you got that expression from :)

Personally, I would prefer to be fully aware of the train thats coming towards me, at least that gives you the chance to jump.

Ignorance is bliss only if you cant handle the truth.

Stef said...

@paul (the other one)

it's a good line and I've been plagiarising it extensively

I've also made it available as a torrent, hope you don't mind ;P


ezra pound is, of course, one of the godfathers of contemporary internet loonery

Anti_NWO said...

@ Paul, Stef

I appreciate the recommendations. I'm already aware of some of those, but not all so I'll check them out.

As for Monbiot, that quote made me chuckle - one wonders if he's trying to emulate Dawkins...

I notice the unemployment figures are still rising so on that note:

If you've ever been unemployed in the UK in the last 5 years, claiming JSA for a period of more than 6 months you'll be put on something called "Gateway to Work". This consists of half talks, half searching for jobs at a third party 'training' provider. The talks are almost nothing to do with employment and everything to do with psychology.

Essentially the government wants you to think unemployment is down to just you to resolve and external\extenuating factors are completely ignored. Apparently thee are 660,000 job opportunities in the UK, which seems to be a figure plucked out of thin air. You're also told that employers can reject you for very silly little things like leaning forward too much when answering a question - this suggests you have to be almost paranoid about what you do in\around interviews.

The content even goes as far as saying "don't go to the pub the same evening in case someone from the company spots you getting drunk or rings you".

Am I the only one who thinks this is Tavistocky shit to fuck with us and shift blame away from the real cause of the recent "economic problems" and thus job losses?

Stef said...


Anti_NWO said...

PS: I can assure you I'm not short of love or kindness, well perhaps from more people would be nice but I have a "other 50%" (as Stef puts it) so can't complain too much :p

Stef said...

it rolls off the tongue easier than 'Comrade Life Partner'

Anti_NWO said...

I usually stick to using "girlfriend". ;-)

Stef said...

And I hope that I've never expressed the suggestion that being happily partnered-up is a prerequisite for coping with stuff

That would be a very smug thing to do and an exercise in Fate-tempting

But it does help when it's there

Anti_NWO said...

Indeed, I probably place more importance on that type of relationship than some people - each to their own.

Parabellum said...

Recently I heard David Harvey speak, but he doesn't come close to Parenti.

Speaking of him, his book "History as Mystery" arrived this week - let's see how good it is.

And I just finished Taleb's "Fooled by Randomness" and "The Black Swan". After reading one, you don't really need to read the other. I found the first one more interesting to read and the second one deals more with how the world is not Gaussian - and the errors you make when assuming that it is Gaussian.

Parabellum said...

Oh, one nice thing David Harvey mentioned: Obama gets slapped the "Socialist" label quite a lot by the right wingers in the US. I fired back quite hard and approval ratings for socialism started to climb in the US! If Obama is doing socialism, it can't be that bad. :-) So the right wingers had to react and they now call him a - Fascist.

paul said...

how the world is not Gaussian
There's a branch of statistics that rejects this, non parametric statistics.

"Generations of statisticians have had it beaten in to their skulls that any data that scatters does so according to the iron dictates of the bell shaped curve.

The truth is that in no case has a sizable body of naturally occurring data ever been proven to follow the curve".

(A $200,000 prize offered in the 1920s for anyone who could provide rigorous evidence of a natural occurrence of the curve remains unclaimed.)

paul said...

Conrad's 'The Secret Agent' is very good on our times, and chesterton's 'Man who was thursday' captures the wilderness of mirrors well.

Anti_NWO said...

World currency..

"Unity in Diversity" also happens to be Indonesia's national motto and what a corrupt shithole for a country that is\was...

stef from south island said...

"The truth is that in no case has a sizable body of naturally occurring data ever been proven to follow the curve"

lol, outstanding

the first example of a bullshit gaussian distribution which came to mind was wealth distribution in the UK

it's an accepted 'Truth' that it would simply be impossible to pay for the current round of bailouts by taxing the relatively small number of wealthy people in the country and that the bulk of the necessary taxation burden will have to fall on the 'gaussian' middle of the population


per a reference I linked to in my original post...

For Britain, Cahill analyses this landownership, showing how a tiny minority exploits British society. 160,000 families, 0.3% of the population, own 37 million acres, two thirds of Britain, 230 acres each. Just 1,252 of them own 57% of Scotland. They pay no land tax. Instead every government gives them £2.3 billion a year and the EU gives them a further £2 billion. Each family gets £26,875.

By contrast, 57.5 million of us pay £10 billion a year in council tax, a land tax, £550 per household. We live in 24 million homes on about four million acres. 65% of homes are privately owned, so 16 million of us own just 2.8 million acres, an average 0.18 acres each.

methinks that particular distribution curve could be skewed just a little bit to the right

stef from south island said... surprise that the government has steadily shifted the burden of taxation further away from rent and asset ownership and onto wages over the years

barter systems are starting to look better and better

as are these

Stef said...

"captures the wilderness of mirrors well"

...and we're back to Ezra Pound again

a godfather of contemporary internet loonery and the CIA

a busy fellow, no mistake

paul said...

a godfather of contemporary internet loonery and the CIA

I never said he was perfect

paul said...

Interestingly, peter dale scott did his phd on eliot's political thought and was a guinea pig for CIA funded sensory deprivation research.
Alfred McCoy is another person worth paying attention to.

Anti_NWO said...

Irish land ownership isn't nearly as skewed, and their welfare isn't bad either (I'd be allowed £176 a week, plus an additional hardship allowance plus housing benefit). Shame the economy is also fucked though :p

Stef said...

meanwhile, in the world of the rational, my nomination for reader's comment of the week...

I know people grumble a lot about drug companies, but if they can come up with 90 million doses of a vaccine against a new disease in a few weeks then they can't be all bad.

John Small, Faversham, UK

it's been a cracking few days for global currencies and mandatory vaccinations. Alex Jones must be wetting himself

Anti_NWO said...

It has. You know Stef, I happened to meet a couple of "conspiraloons" at the 'training course' I'm on purely by accident. One of them discussed how a different type of sugar was banned here, because its a healthier replacement for regular white sugar from sugar cane.

As for that Times article... phrases like “military-style operation” concern me. Obviously, I'm going to continue to tell people its a sham and to ignore this so-called mandatory bullshit.

Anti_NWO said...

Speaking of conspiraloons, I see that more and more comments on mainstream articles appear to be "on our side" so to speak. Like this one on the above article:

I understand the 75-milligram Tamiflu capsules contains Oseltamivir phosphate,black iron oxide (E172),
Croscarmellose Sodium,FD&C Blue 2 (indigo carmine, E132),Gelatin,Povidone,Pregelatinised maize starch,Red iron oxide (E172),Shellac,Sodium Stearyl Fumarate,Talc,Titanium dioxide (E171) and Yellow iron oxide (E172). Yum, but not for me.

Mark, Oxford, UK

lwtc247 said...

“If this virus does [mutate], it can get a lot more nasty..."

Hummm, for some totally unknown reason, they seem to have forgoten to add this ditty "or if it does mutate, it could render the virus a lot less harmful"

As the 'healthy man' with no underlying medical problems is the ONLY one to have died so far in the UK, supposedly purely from the virus attack, then what does that say about its potency?

"A new vaccine is expected to arrive in Britain in the next few weeks and could be fast-tracked through regulatory approval in five days."


"Regulators at the European Medicines Agency (EMEA) said the fast-tracked procedure has involved clinical trials of a “mock-up” vaccine similar to the one that will be used for the biggest mass vaccination programme in generations. It will be introduced into the general population while regulators continue to carry out simultaneous clinical trials." - Oh Jesus! I smell DISASTER!

"The first patients in the queue for the jab - being supplied to the UK by GSK and Baxter Healthcare - may understandably be a little nervous at any possible side effects." - Dear Lord!

Anonymous said...

£10.9bn paper losses in UK Govt Llyods/RBS bank stake

The body set up to manage the Government's stake in Lloyds Banking Group and Royal Bank of Scotland has said that it was sitting on paper losses of £10.9 billion.

UK Financial Investments Limited (UKFI) - which said every household in the country has more than £3,000 invested in Lloyds and RBS shares - said it would not lay out a fixed timetable for the disposal of its stakes in the banks.

Nothing a few untested 'vaccines' wont cure, hey?

gyges said...

"The truth is that in no case has a sizable body of naturally occurring data ever been proven to follow the curve."

However, the myth of the Gaussian has been used in the education industry in order to deprive people of an education. Gaussian curves were often produced when exam results were normalised - how was this done? Well, the questions were rigged so a 'normal' ie Guassian result could be obtained.

Until the Gaussian has been proven - rather than induced - the use of the Gaussian is no better than phrenology.

"Thousands of people consulted phrenologists for advice in various matters, such as hiring personnel or finding suitable marriage partners."

In other words, if we think that those people were stupid for doing the above, imagine what future generations will think of us for subordinating ourselves to the Gaussian.

Anonymous said...

Pretty much on topic - 2 ducks converse.

c/o The Truthseeker

quack quack

gyges said...

Is anyone around here going to Norwich to doorstep for Craig Murray?

Anonymous said...

wish I could mate. If I could I would.

ver word = viurs (no typo)
second ver = tingd

Tiberius said...

Don't know if it has been mentioned already, but wondering what you guys think of this.

Better the inquest waits till Labour are out of power? Or is it going to be another whitewash either way?

Anonymous said...

Thankfully the Kelly stuff won't go away.

I have a horrible feeling it's ultimately linked to this -
Dick Cheney, the former vice president, ordered a highly classified CIA operation hidden from Congress because it pushed the limits of legality by planning to assassinate al-Qaida operatives in friendly countries without the knowledge of their governments, according to former intelligence officials.

Al Qadea operative, troublesome white guy...what's the difference?

I was also making the point on the J7 forum, there's an elephant in the room here, something that never gets discussed with Kelly.

Here he was, at the eye of one of the biggest political and intelligence storms ever seen in British politics, a proper risk to national security. Are we really to believe he wasn't under surveillance the night he died? It's unthinkable isn't it?

lwtc247 said...

Are we really to believe he wasn't under surveillance the night he died? It's unthinkable isn't it?

That is an EXCELLENT point. Totally EXCELLENT!

stef from south island said...

coincidentally, and accidentally, i tested the david kelly suicide scenario out on myself this weekend

and i can confirm from direct personal experience that it's a fucking stupid way to try and do yourself in, or the gardening

am now all slinged up and only capable of typing with one hand - which means no capitals and definitely no cut and pasting - which be the kiss of death to any self respecting blogger

Stef said...

and the logical explanation for the apparent lack of security force surveilleince of dr kelly is that our security forces are dangerously under-resourced and all personnel were busy with more urgent matters such as fitting up nonabombers, having tailor made suits charged to expenses and helping their own agents escape from pakistani police custody

soily said...

Yes, that would be the obvious excuse...

Kelly would have probably been under phone and email tapping for ages, naturally. But it's hard not to think he must have been under some live surveillance at that point, considering just what a big story he had become.

This may also shed some light on 'Operartion Mason', still classified, whose date started before Kelly even left the house.

Anonymous said...

Moon Landing Stuff

Stef said...

40 years on and still waiting to buy my Pan Am ticket for a fortnight's vacation on the Sea of Tranquility

with my fusion powered domestic robot

ah well, only ten more years to wait


Stef said...

Kubrick did such lovely work didn't he

Stef said...

i am so paying for taking my arm out of its sling to type those capitals

gyges said...

Interesting court case in the offing ... Berezovsky v Russian Television and Radio Broadcasting Co & Anor [2009] EWHC 1733 (QB).

Mr Justice Eady "It is thus in the interests of both sides that this proposed plea of justification, so far as it goes, should be properly addressed."

"Justification" is a defence to defamation; Eady J is saying that Mr Terluk can go ahead and show the truth of what he has said about Platon.

I hope his Scotland Yard protection is up to scratch.

paul said...

Sounds like you need one of these, stef,you won't want to go back

Stef said...

iT;s GoT tO bE bEtTeR tHaN wHaT i'M UsInG aT tHe MoMeNt

Anonymous said...

"Yup, neither Mussolini nor Hitler were fascists. An outstanding expose of Real™ History". -Stef

The loon brigade is very fond of educating us 'anti-loons' (ie, everybody else) that the boundaries between political ideologies can be blurred at the best of times. We are frequently informed, for instance, that 'wingnut' politics is a sham.

Seeing as you are now a card-carrying Wingnut yourself Stef, now that you have fallen off your postmodernist perch and come crashing back down into the realms of acceptable political discourse, let me coach you with a little Real History™. The accusation of 'fascist' is so frequently bandied about by the left because it carries all the negative connotations and implications of authoritarian regimes while conveniently ignoring the historical contribution made to many such regimes by leftist ideologies.

The National Socialist Workers (Nazi) Party of Germany incorporated a great deal of socialist doctrine into its ideology. Let's see what Josef Goebbels had to say on the matter:

"We are socialists because we see in socialism, that is the union of all citizens, the only chance to maintain our racial inheritance and to regain our political freedom and renew our German state.
Socialism is the doctrine of liberation for the working class. It promotes the rise of the fourth class and its incorporation in the political organism of our Fatherland, and is inextricably bound to breaking the present slavery and the regaining of German freedom. Socialism therefore is not merely a matter of the oppressed class, but a matter for everyone, for freeing the German people from slavery is the goal of contemporary policy. Socialism gains its true form only through a total combat brotherhood with the forward-striving energies of a newly awakened nationalism. Without nationalism it is nothing, a phantom, a mere theory, a castle in the sky, a book. With it it is everything, the future, freedom, the Fatherland!

[..goes on for some time...]

We are against the political bourgeois, and for genuine nationalism!
We are against Marxism, but for true socialism!
We are for the first German national state of a socialist nature!
We are for the National Socialist German Workers Party!"

A heady mix! Now, seeing as you lot are, as I wrote on another blog, just a whacko faction of the extreme left, you should know about the close historical ties between the extreme left and the extreme right and particularly that these ties are alive and well today. I've attended enough of those free-Palestine protests to know that it's the Jews and their capitalism that are whispered about among the protesters, despite the banners proclaiming it's all about Zionism.

One thing we can say with certainty that History Has Shown™ is that communist regimes very quickly start to resemble fascist ones once the revoltion has been won and the opposition removed. Political ideologies work well on paper and in academic circles, but always result in the death of millions when put into practice. If we were ever treated to alternative theories of government by the Loon Alliance, then I am sure that it would very quickly become apparent that they would require totalitarian methods of control in order to be implemented.

Therefore, it's best to join Capitalism, the Least Bad System™, or at least work with us so that together we can make it the best of all least bad systems.

And just a quick note to my fellow anonymous commentator, who said

"Incidentally, if Hitler was a socialist, presumably his ally *Emperor* (yes Emperor) Hirohito must have been one as well. Yep. Makes perfect sense..."

Do feel free to look up whose side Stalin was on at the start of the war.

Stoat said...

There's a saying that goes something along the lines of, "Better to remain silent and be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and confirm it." Take heed, Anonymous.

Let's see what Josef Goebbels had to say on the matter:

That's propaganda for you. They all say something to garner support. Quite often, they lie.

The key word in your sentence is "say". That's what was said. What was done was something different. A simple distinction, but one obviously quite beyond your comprehension, proving that not only can you not distinguish between words and actions, but also that your knowledge of history is lacking.

I've attended enough of those free-Palestine protests to know that it's the Jews and their capitalism that are whispered about among the protesters, despite the banners proclaiming it's all about Zionism.

That's quite some company you keep. It's clear you're not hanging around with Neturei Karta.

You do not have to be Jewish to be a capitalist, but operating on that premise wouldn't allow you to project your own racist world view onto others.

Anonymous said...

Well done you little weasel for spotting the 'key word' in my sentence. You're quite right, that's what he said. It is also true that they lie. And well done for noticing that the commies quickly become 'fascists'. You must have done Animal Farm at GCSE!

What is your point? That what dictators say is right, but their actions are not? As I said in my debut post, radical political ideologies are best left on the bookshelf. History has shown™ (yes, it really has) that the more radical the alternative proposed, the more millions die.

Will you please explain to me how you would remove the money economy and enforce an egalitarian society without resort to authoritarian methods of control? What would happen to those who object?

paul said...

I wonder who anon is berating this time?
you little weasel
If he is referring to stoat, he reveals yet another area of ignorance.
Stoats are not weasels, and are generally larger than them.
What on earth do they teach people in east anglia?

Stef said...


My personal beef is not with money per se but with who gets to create it and what they get to charge for it

There's also the small, and not entirely unrelated, matter of the inexorable shift of the burden of taxation away from unearned 'rentier' income over to earned income

I'm not a big fan of coercing people to do anything and freely acknowledge that awful crimes have been committed in the past by people claiming that they were trying to make the world a better place.

So, aside from getting my take on money and authoritarian governments, of any persuasion, completely wrong you're bang on the nail

I'm also pretty sure that Josef Goebbels claimed that the Nazis were winning the war in 1945

Stef said...

and just for the record, if you start smearing my blog with hilarious comedy racism or misrepresenting my thoughts about dead friends of mine I'll start hitting that old delete key and you can stick expressions of faux indignation at my outrageous acts of censorship where the sun don't shine

Stef said...

if I were discussing this stuff with someone who wanted to engage in an adult difference of opinions I'd also freely acknowledge that terms such 'fascism' or 'capitalism' are potentially so elastic that it's essential to clarify what someone means when they are referring to them

I don't actually believe that the brand of capitalism most people are subject to can honestly be considered to be free-market capitalism at all

as for the term 'fascism', my personal definition of that word is similar to the one attributed to Mussolini; a seamless merger of corporation and state

and going back to the Goebbels thing, yes, 'fascist' was originally Italian slang for a labour union

but it ain't any more

Anonymouse said...

Paul, poring over someone's sentences like that in order to discredit them really is pedantry in its lowest form.

The stoat does indeed belong to the weasel family, and therefore is a weasel. Urban folk such as yourself may not have ever seen one, but out 'ere in the countryside we 'ave 'em plenty. Also, as zoology is the discipline in which I am professionally qualified, you'd be better off deleting that last comment before your five other readers see it.

Well done for exposing yet another area of my ignorance.

paul said...

Paul, poring over someone's sentences like that in order to discredit them really is pedantry in its lowest form.

If you believe that then why do you put such effort into it?

The stoat does indeed belong to the weasel family, and therefore is a weasel. Urban folk such as yourself may not have ever seen one, but out 'ere in the countryside we 'ave 'em plenty. Also, as zoology is the discipline in which I am professionally qualified, you'd be better off deleting that last comment before your five other readers see it.

Well that might apply if you phrased your insult 'you little member of the weasel family', but you have to realise that stoats and weasel are quite distinct species, different in size and reproductive arrangements. A stoat is a stoat and not a weasel. They might be grouped together by human agency, but that does not make them the same thing.

But then you always seem happier with a broad brush. All things, from capitalism to free palestinian marches (get many of them out in deliverance country?) and even we conspiraloons, are just generic instances of monolithic categories, all uniquely understood by you.

Well done for exposing yet another area of my ignorance.

It is hardly a pleasure, but I feel bound to.

Stoat said...

Will you please explain to me how you would remove the money economy and enforce an egalitarian society without resort to authoritarian methods of control?

In case you hadn't noticed, we already have the authoritation methods of control.

The money economy is removing itself apace. The transitionary process is called 'quantitive easing'.

Anonymous said...

"Do feel free to look up whose side Stalin was on at the start of the war."

Do feel free to look up the Soviet–Japanese Nonaggression Pact; If Hitler was a socialist, Emperor Hirohito must have been one, too...

baldy fantasist said...

Yes quite, quite. There is no such thing as far-right, pay attention and you might learn something!

Anonymous said...

...and that Winston Churchill must have been a Communist as well! My God, they're everywhere!

Anonymous said...

Paul, that was an admirable attempt at getting yourself out of an embarrassing situation (I can almost sense the frantic scouring of Wikipedia in that last post). [hands paul a shovel]

The stoat is a weasel paul, just as a loon is a diver, a tiger is a cat, and a shovel is a tool. Of course, all these terms exist through 'human agency' (the weasel does not think of itself as a weasel, it just exists). If you would like to ask a stoat what it thinks it is, then do so (but mind out, they bite). I can't guarantee that you'll get a reply, but you're welcome to try. In the meantime, I'll just carry on using that wonderful work of human agency, language.

Anyway, I can't be bothered with this anymore, it's like debating with a five year-old. Do your own research. As you won't believe someone with a degree in the subject, here's a start from Wikipedia for you:

"In technical discourse, however, as in American usage, the term "weasel" can refer to any member of the genus, or to the genus as a whole."

Now please stop wasting my time paul, I'm here for the serious debate.

Tom said...

What time does that start? Is it being chaired by a Dimbulbeh?

Anonymous said...

"In case you hadn't noticed, we already have the authoritation methods of control."

Yes Stoat, I presume you mean the kind of authoritarian methods of control that allow you to write about them on a public blog?

And come back to me when the money economy has removed itself, if you're still around.

paul said...

If there's there is one thing certain,anon, you are not here for serious debate. You're just here to noise people up who happen to disagree with your rather anger filled weltanschauung.

Serious debate does not include ad hominem attacks. You call anti-nwo a liar, likened me to a five year old (as I have no adult experience of debating five year olds, I will defer to on this) and persist in asserting that someone's online name makes them a member of the mustela family.

You, who wears your learning so heavily, should not confuse the realms of zoological classification and online naming so recklessly. I doubt the academy would accept that someone who chooses the name stoat should be included in a genus of four legged mammals. Perhaps stoat is his surname? Stott, stoate, stoat are all recognised surnames, according to the internet surname database. Having the name, online or off, does not a stoat make, let alone a weasel.

Anonymous said...

Paul, I know that there's no such thing as bad publicity, but don't you think it's time you gave up on this one?

paul said...

No, explain why.

Anonymous said...

"Stoats are not weasels"

-paul (again). A damning exposé of my ignorance. Have you thought of a career in investigative journalism?

paul said...

Glad you came round to my way of thinking