Saturday, October 16, 2010

I Can't Believe It's Not a Proper Inquest!! pt1

My late uncle served in the London Ambulance Service for 32 years. During that time he had developed a healthy respect for the Metropolitan Police. He had very little time for conspiracy theories, was willing to give the security forces the benefit of the doubt, and always invoked cock-up and the natural human desire to cover-up cock ups as the probable explanations for the kind of issues that we Conspiraloons get wound up about

Earlier in the Summer, and before he shuffled off this mortal coil, I was having one of my usual, mostly good-natured, slanging matches with my uncle about exploding trains and innocent people being shot in the back of the head in London when he said something along the lines of...

'OK, you weren't completely off the mark with that Brazilian thing but you can't seriously deny those four Muslim nutcases set those bombs off in London that day!?'

As it happens, my uncle was on duty driving a support vehicle on 7/7 and ended up in Tavistock Place. I know he saw a fair few casualties from the bus explosion. So, I said to him

'According to the Government, those bombs were supposed to be made from home-made explosives and home-made explosives burn, not blast. How many of the people you saw getting off that bus had any burn injuries?'

My uncle looked confused for moment, didn't answer the question and changed the subject completely

Which wasn't like him at all, especially as I'd already played the same card a couple of years back

Your own Dissonance is a dish best not served in your face, repeatedly


I only mention that story now because of this little nugget I've just come across, courtesy of The Antagonist...

7/7-Style Explosives Found In NY Cemetery

Explosives of the same type used in the London 7/7 bombings have been removed from a New York cemetery

Eight bricks of the powerful C4 explosives were discovered in a plastic bag at the historic New York City Marble Cemetery

which, of course, completely contradicts the Official 7/7 Narrative which states that home-made explosives were used

The obvious counter from a Pro Official Narrative viewpoint would be that, as is invariably the case when news reports contradict Official Narratives, the news report is simply misinformed

Misinformed by the...

"New York police said the explosives were "very potent" military grade of the same type used the 2005 London attacks. But they were missing detonators."

That would be the same NYPD that was selected
to release the pictures of those very spikey, and highly photogenic, bombs...

...that the alleged 7/7 bombers allegedly put together with loving care with the military grade explosives they made in the bath out of chapati flour and hair care products, only to leave in the back of their car on the day of their attack

From what I've read of the current 7/7 Inquest-themed pantomime it would seem that the establishment is sticking with the DIY explosives story. How well that's going to hold up as the Mock Inquest proceeds (not very well so far) remains to be seen

More allegedly inconsistent car-based 7/7 antics are detailed here...



Bridget said...

Day 1 Opening Statement from Hugo Keith:

14 My Lady, I have mentioned this evidence because
15 a number of unlikely conspiracy theories have been aired
16 in the press and on the internet. One particular
17 campaigning group has submitted voluminous submissions
18 to the Inquest team,
and the submissions reflect
19 long-held views expressed on the website, that website,
20 to the effect that there are a large number of anomalies
21 that merit detailed attention.
22 We consider it important that such claims are
23 identified and addressed,

Coroner's Inquests into the London Bombings of the 7 July 2005

Bridget said...

^ We are monitoring events closely - so far: there is no CCTV from KX underground, MacDonalds, Number 30 bus, Number 91 bus, the trains or KX platforms.

So much for 'safe under watchful eyes'!

Stef said...

Did Hugo mention that the Official Narrative has already been altered as a result of these unlikely conspiracy theories?

And however important Hugo thinks it is that these 'claims' are addressed I'll bet the unused half of a Luton to Kings X return that Hugo and his chums will do anything but the sort

The tone of what is laughably referred to as an inquest has already been set, the guilt of the alleged bombers has already been established without due process and the now familiar technique of presentng the banal (shopping at Asda) with the misrespresented (videos taken on any day but 7/7) already long-established

Bridget said...

J7 will be on the case, highlighting as many of the inconsistencies and in some cases, lies, as we find them, here:

J7: 7/7 Inquests Blog

gyges said...

Stef@16:57 said,

"the guilt of the alleged bombers has already been established without due process"

I find this statement utterly, utterly incredible. I find it incredible because it describes and explains the 52/4 split even though,

"8. The likely involvement of MSK, Tanweer, Hussain and Lindsay in the development and assembly of the explosive devices.

9. The presence at the scenes of MSK, Tanweer, Hussain and Lindsay, and their proximity to the explosions.

are factual issues according to the Provisional Index of Factual Issues published on the 24th June 2010.

stef said...

From the afternoon session on the 11th...

13 There is no evidence at all that we have seen to
14 suggest that the bombers were duped in some way so that
15 they did not know that they were going to die or, even
16 more absurdly, that they did not know that they were
17 carrying explosives at all. Indeed, such claims run
18 entirely contrary to all the evidence that I have
19 summarised so far.
20 It is right to say that the bombers were
21 surprisingly effective, it would seem, in concealing
22 their intentions from those around them. Tanweer played
23 cricket in the evening before putting the terrible plot
24 into effect and seemed more concerned, according to his
25 family, by the loss of his mobile phone.

I think, as far as the alleged Inquest is concerned, those factual issues are pretty much a done deal

stef said...

Fans of NIST's report on the WTC7 collapse ('we found no evidence that explosives were used ... because we didn't test for explosives') will no doubt savour the line -

"There is no evidence at all that we have seen to suggest that the bombers were duped in some way"

Malcolm Pryce said...

I must admit, I was troubled by the footage of them shopping for ice at ASDA. How on earth did the authorities manage to find the footage I wondered. Did they search the CCTV footage of every shop in Yorkshire for June/July? Then I read in the Guardian they found the till receipt in Edgware Road. As if! It makes the passport falling out of the plane at Ground Zero plausible in comparison.

gyges said...

Stef said, "I think, as far as the alleged Inquest is concerned, those factual issues are pretty much a done deal ".

That's what is so incomprehensible. Orwellian double speak ... but not in fiction.

A fact in issue is what you're setting out to prove/disprove. That's the whole point of the inquest.

Any book about evidence law will give an explanation.

I've got Murphy on Evidence, 9th ed, on my bookshelf, it's on page 24.

Stef said...


I see that some folk over at J7T have picked up on and are mulling over this point about the disregard being shown towards the Provisional Statement of Factual Issues

Your input on this is appreciated

And a sad indictment of the state of UK news media and politics.

Twenty years ago at least some journalists and politicians would have been combing through the Official Narrative and attempting to hold the State to account. Not necessarily because they believed there was a State conspiracy, but simply because that's what they're supposedly paid to do

Nowadays, fuck all

Bridget said...

Despite all the State's efforts, the Inquests are throwing up some interesting factual issues that are being picked up by the counsel for the bereaved. There is something heartening in Ms Gallagher's 6 counties accent when examining DI Kindness' testimony, given the long history of the British State's involvement in miscarriages of justice.

J7: 7/7 Inquests Blog: A CCTV Fuss About Nothing?

The narrative is unravelling!

Anonymous said...

Jupp's widow Pat said she thought the jury had assessed the evidence correctly. "The Ministry of Defence have lost a highly experienced, loyal, dedicated scientist. I feel very proud in the knowledge that he helped to save thousands of lives doing the research work that he carried out."

Anonymous said...

"The narrative is unravelling!" - Don't worry, it's nothing a new dollop of BS wont cure.

stef said...

Any BS is possible when you're dealing with authors of Official Narratives that quote witnesses on non-existent trains

Bridget said...

@ Anonymous

I've some faith in the counsel for the bereaved seeing through and challenging the BS.

Caoilfhionn Gallagher

and of course J7 will be on the case.

Anonymous said...

According to:, a solvent used to make C4 is dichloromethane or chloroform. i.e. a chemical whose source(supplier) should be traceable that should furnish a trail of actual evidence (if there was one) in a thorough investigaion.

Buying ice doesn't hack it. P.S. does anyone know what the weather was like then? Hot, sunny - good iced-drinks making days - iced drinks to be served out at a cricket match for example???

Add to that the rest of the exotic ingredients and one might just have a case. But there isn't anything like this is there.

Wonder why?

- lwtc247

stef said...

I find it a little peculiar that an alleged bunch of would-be jihadists who were so careful as to keep their highly volatile DIY explosives chilled with ice would then...

- cram themselves and their DIY explosive laden rucksacks into a hired Nissan Micra - not exactly the most spacious or smoothest riding car on the market (and not forgetting that one of the alleged bombers actually owned a Merc)

- allegedly make a train connection that, even if possible, would require that they sprint around carrying the same rucksacks laden with highly volatile DIY explosives

The Official Narrative is bollocks

If the 7/7 Inquest concludes by merely endorsing the Official Narrative that too will be bollocks

Anonymous said...

The C4 in NY cemetery story, coinciding with the 7/7 inquest, does seem very deliberate.
Is this like an inside joke?

But then, a local paper reckons that the bag is actually very old, like perhaps 13 yrs old (though it bases it on NY Times info):

So if this is true, what are the odds that this bag would be found right when the inquest for 7/7 is on, and Kelly the NYPD cop would associate it with 7/7 explosives.

Very odd.

Stef said...

an extract from the article I link to in my post...

"(the C4) was "taken perhaps from a military installation years ago. We don't have the age," he said.

"It looks like it's been there a significant period of time."

The explosives were found in 2009 by a cemetery worker, who left them in the black bag at the back of the graveyard.

They remained there until they were discovered at the weekend by a volunteer worker.

It is not known how or why the C4 sticks ended up at the cemetery.

But police are investigating two bizarre notes found nearby.

One note, written in chalk on the pavement, said: "I really hope one of you finds this."

Another message, posted in an envelope on a police car, said, "words to the effect of 'stop putting Christ on 2nd Street,'" Commissioner Kelly said. It was signed "Jesus Christ".

"It's difficult to tell when this may have been written. What we'll do is look at cameras in the area," the commissioner added."

an extract from a reader's comment underneath the article...

The rain didn't wash the chalk away?


Stef said...

from the Villager coverage...

"According to reports, police subsequently determined the C-4 sticks are more than 13 years old because the ordnance lacks special taggant chemicals required since 1997 to help identify the materials in bombs."

which is actually pretty meaningless information, as the C4 could have been sitting in someone's fridge for 11 of those 13 years

It is indeed an odd story - both in itself and in the synthetic connection being made with 7/7

Anonymous said...

"What we'll do is look at cameras in the area," the commissioner added."

Oh dear. Hope there not the same cameras as what our lot use. In any case, what's the chance the cameras malfunctioned or were turned off or were under reapir or...

Stef said...

"Oh dear. Hope there not the same cameras as what our lot use"

or the ones at the airports on 9/11

or the ones around the Pentagon

or the ones used during the CIA's 'enhanced' interrogations...


Anonymous said...

Wonders if someone's been making a tidy sum from govt tenders, buying in these as the genuine article.

Anonymous Coward said...

I've always been a little suspicious of the argument that the supposed bombers didn't catch the train(s) in question. The no-train angle always looked similar to the infamous no-plane 9/11 arguments and could be knocked down by eg it being claimed that the CCTV time hadn't been adjusted since March when the clocks went forward an hour.

Not having the bombers/patsies catch the train seems to indroduce a level of complication and risk that would have been unnecessary imho. Note also that David Shayler was pushing the whole no-train argument quite a lot.

I would have thought that whoever masterminded the plot would have allowed for rail delays. Some of the withholding of CCTV footage and alleged malfuctioning of cameras could just be a means to allow for such delays and the production of red-herrings!

Stef said...

To the best of my knowledge, neither I nor anyone over at J7 is pushing a no train theory

As has been discussed in this blog on several occasions in the past, it is the State which is promoting a theory and therefore has an obligation to support that theory with evidence

and it's doing a pretty sh*t job so far

Just because I can see flaws in the Official Narrative there is no obligation on my part to whip up a competiting narrative. As a general rule, I don't do 'What do YOU think happened then?!!'

though if someone gave me access to a few hundred investigators and the resources and powers of the State I might have bash

Stef said...

and let's not forget, the alleged bombers most certainly didn't catch the train the first version of the Official Narrative said they did

it was canceled

The Antagonist said...

....Well enough cancelled to be acknowledged in Parliament.

Anonymous Coward said...

Fair enough, I didn't mean to accuse anyone, maybe 'no-train theory' isn't the right label. But there's no harm in pointing out potential avenues of misdirection. Untruths in the official narrative will of course be seen as cock-ups or otherwise ignored, whatever their motivation.

The Antagonist said...

^^ Not that being acknowledged by a bunch of lying shits, who would sell their own grandmothers if the inheritance wasn't worth more, means that much. But some people appreciate that sort of thing.

Stef said...


No harm at all

What I would say, and do frequently, is that it's quite difficult to be misdirected if you keep focused on the flaws in the Official Narratives rather than being tempted into concocting your own

I appreciate that this kind of approach is not in keeping with the conspiraloon stereotype promoted by the mainstream and controlled alternative press but they can all go fuck themselves, hard