They know 'The Jews' did it
I don't
For the umpteenth time, I'm going to illustrate why those people are wilfully spouting out of their rear end when it comes to 7/7 and The Jews. After that I will move further afield and point to a couple of examples how this same kind of nonsense, and I will explain why it is nonsense, is fucking up other areas of sceptical inquiry
I have yet to meet a 7/7 researcher who is an apologist for Israel or Zionism, quite the opposite. I have, however, met a few who do not believe that plutocratic evil is restricted to The Jews and who will not point fingers without supporting evidence. As I have made clear throughout the life of this blog, these are the kind of people I feel most comfortable associating with
As far as I can tell, the Muad'dibs, the Kollerstroms, the Jim Fetzers, the Kevin Barretts, and all the other twunts who accuse people like me of being Zionist stooges for not blaming The Jews for 7/7, point to three pieces of evidence of undeniable Mossad involvement in 7/7...
- An Israeli company was responsible for CCTV on the London Underground on 7/7
- Benjamin Netanyahu was in London on the morning of 7/7 and, as reported in an Israeli newspaper, was warned not to leave his hotel by a mysterious phone call shortly before the bombs exploded
- Everyone knows that staged atrocities like 7/7 are the kind of things The Jews get up to
Starting from the top...
CCTV on the London Underground, or anywhere else, can potentially record (or not record) a multitude of crimes every day. How exactly does that make the people operating the cameras responsible for the planning and execution of those crimes? Could anyone honestly believe that the British state could not interfere with footage from CCTV cameras operated by a non-Israeli company?
Control of the CCTV proves absolutely nothing when it comes to responsibility for 7/7
Now hands up anyone who thinks that Benjamin Netanyahu travels on public transport in London. Hands up anyone who thinks that Mossad would only tell Netanyahu that it is bombing London a few minutes before the bombs go off. And hands up anyone who thinks that the all-powerful Mossad and Israeli state would broadcast proof of their foreknowledge and culpability in an Israeli newspaper
I have posed these questions directly to people promoting the Netanyahu Warning story on the net and have yet to receive a straight reply. They insist on uncritically perpetuating this crap regardless, demonstrate every time they do so that their brains are in their backside and show that when their reason and prejudice are in conflict their prejudice wins every time
Which leads us on to the 'everyone knows The Jews do this sort of thing' proof of guilt.
Presumably anyone who supports this line of thinking is in favour of randomly stopping and searching Black people on the High Street. They would also presumably have some sympathy with the rising tide of Islamophobia which is being stoked up in the West off the back of exactly the same kind of logic. Innocent till proven guilty? Nah, sod that
You choppers
As well as having your brains in your backside, you'd have to cultivate and maintain a seriously skewed understanding of history to believe that only The Jews play dress-up and engage in false flag operations
The British, for example, have been dressing up in sheets and flouncing around Arabia, executing and buggering the locals for years, long before the Zionist state was even a twinkle in Herzl's eye
- There was Richard Burton, the spiritual godfather of the contemporary sex tourism industry...
- Then that bloke in The Four Feathers...
- Then that bloke in that other film...
- There was the Long Range Desert Group in North Africa during the Second World War...
- And SAS assassination teams in Aden...
- And not forgetting that pair of jokers who had to be sprung out of jail in Basra a few years back
Ah, but the argument goes, The Jews trained the British Army to behave like this
Nope, wrong way round. The British were practicing infiltration, playing one side off against the other and ripping off the world by tricking and paying puppets to do their killing long before the State of Israel existed. It was the British who trained the Israelis, not the other way round. Which is why this frankly bonkers individual is revered in the Jewish State...
General Order Wingate - clandestine warfare and counter-insurgency specialist, and all round beardie mentalist Blaming 'The Jews' for everything is a cop out. The people who fall into that trap are swallowing the same myth that was doing the rounds in the 1920s and 1930s. That myth is that there was a Jew-free Golden Age at some point in the unspecified distant past, that only The Jews are capable of being responsible for great acts of plutocratic wickedness and that if The Jews were out of the picture everything would be just fucking peachy
The problem is that history is littered with people who, by any measure, cannot be considered to be The Jews or Zionists but who were still right bastards. One example that comes straight to mind is President Andrew Jackson. The man who laboured for years to kill an earlier incarnation of the 'Zionist' Federal Reserve but who laboured just as hard killing indigenous North American people and endorsing slavery
A once popular painting celebrating the spirit of American Progress driving indigenous people into the shadows of history. Nice(I don't think she was supposed to be Jewish)
People like Jackson, or the slavers who fought for their freedom (to keep slaves and to steal a chunk of Mexico) against the slave-free Mexicans at the Alamo, just don't fit into 'The Jews are responsible for everything awful' mythos. Consequently, people who embrace that mythos are also obliged to develop a very selective view of history and current events
As belief systems go, blaming The Jews for everything is not rational, it is unsupported by historical experience and it is also cowardly. It is a device for ducking out of any obligation to reflect critically on the shortcomings of your own 'race' (whatever the fuck that is), your heritage and the beliefs you hold dear. It is, for example, absolutely no coincidence that the majority of people who blame The Jews for everything just happen to revere capitalism. And now that capitalism has fucked up, yet again, they feel obliged to get busy finding some racial group to blame rather than the system itself
The final straw, as far as this nonsense goes for me personally, hit the camel's back a couple of months ago immediately after the huge(?) earthquake hit Japan. I'll leave that story till the next time...
97 comments:
well if it wasn´t the Jews who the fuck was it then?,,I mean some one must have done it? right?and lets face it it wasn´t those 4 jeehadiis now was it guv!gues that leave the British dark ops brigade,,those evil underground bad guys
Space Alien Bankers from the Pyramids on Mars did it from a hollowed out moon using holograms and Jedi mind tricks. Muad'Dib is the rightful King of Britain and Israel and he and David Shayler are human incarnations of G-O-D HIMself, follow their ways or face the fire; for every utterance of theirs is the gospel. You shall forever more worship Spice!"
There, are you happy now?
Have you got what you wanted?
Is that why you come here pretending to be interested in truth when all that is wanted is a nice simple story that makes it all very easy to understand without having to work very hard because someone else (no matter who they are or what else they say) has invented a story you like more than the State's one?
Personally speaking, Rainbow Warrior aside, if I knew more about the history of the French state's involvement with false flag terror attacks I'd try and fashion a narrative that pins 7/7 on them
Unfortunately, I was born in the UK, speak lousy French and am best versed in the rich false flag culture of the English-speaking world (plus a bit of Italian) from which to draw my examples
Or the Belgians
I'd love to pin it on them
Surely there is a reasonable distinction to be drawn between the assertion 'the Jews did it' and 'I suspect MOSSAD may have been involved?
The first is the spawn of centuries of simplistic, anti-Semitic paranoia which blamed the Jews for all the world’s ills and reached it's apotheosis with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. In short, risible.
The second seems a perfectly reasonable position to take in respect of suspected false flag ops and other take terror outrages.
As for Netanyahu's 'warning', that surely belongs in the same disinfo bin as Larry Silverstein's comment about pulling Building 7. It's inconceivable that Silverstein could have had such a conversation on the day with the fire chief but he sure claimed that he did, so what was he playing at? Blowing smoke up our asses presumably.
Similarly, what was Netanyahu playing at or are you claiming he never made the remark attributed to him?
"Surely there is a reasonable distinction to be drawn between the assertion 'the Jews did it' and 'I suspect MOSSAD may have been involved?"
Yes, but do I need to start linking to sites which are increasingly failing to make the distinction?
I'd rather not but I will if you believe what I am saying is unsupported
As for WTF was Netanyahu playing at? I haven't the faintest idea but would welcome discussion along those lines, rather than untested claims that it is proof of Israel's guilt
"As for Netanyahu's 'warning', that surely belongs in the same disinfo bin as Larry Silverstein's comment about pulling Building 7. It's inconceivable that Silverstein could have had such a conversation on the day with the fire chief but he sure claimed that he did, so what was he playing at? Blowing smoke up our asses presumably."
Seen this 9/11 doc?
Open Complicity: Anatomy of the 9-11 Cover-Up (2007)
Not one that's had much coverage which makes its concluding thesis all the more interesting
and lets face it it wasn´t those 4 jeehadiis now was it guv!
would those be those 4 jeehadiis armed with explosives and detonators made from magic disappearing pixie dust and accompanied by suicide equerries?
those four?
Open Complicity: Anatomy of the 9-11 Cover-Up (2007) - Not one that's had much coverage which makes its concluding thesis all the more interesting
Ooh, is it a new Messiah?
Not quite. The current new Messiah hasn't run his course yet
I'm expecting Big Things
[C]rapture. Part VII
WV: Uneathe - The sense of foreboding that accompanies the opening conversational gambit of people with a lisp.
On the subject of The Rapture, my series of Bible Passages Every Sceptical Loon Should Know will continue with Matthew 24: 36-44
36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
That's the problem with Fundamentalist Christians, they're not very fundamental
Matthew, of course, gets all the best lines, including my personal favourite Matthew 7:15-20 and its take on on-line ad hominem attacks...
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Last one, promise...
Matthew 24: 4-8
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars:
That should be 'And rumours of star wars'.
False flag false flag false flag British intelligence British intelligence,, media(BBC) media(BBC) were all complicit,,maybe efven the odd foreign intelligence just to monitor proceedings.
In response to Stef's comment I have just watched 'Open Complicity: Anatomy of the 9-11 Cover-Up'.
It certainly raises interesting points.
Larry Silverstein's 'pull it' comment
The dancing Israelis
Bush and the Pet Goat
Jane Standley reporting the collapse of Building 7
All these have been the mainstays of the Truth movement for the past nine year and yet none of them really makes sense. No more than the Netanyahu comment makes sense. Or Peter Power's 7/7 radio interviews.
It sure feels deliberate but I am not persuaded by the conclusions reached in 'Open Complicity: Anatomy of the 9-11 Cover-Up'.
One reason the documentary might not have been discussed much is, technically it's pretty crap. Not really a documentary at all, just a voiceover with some dull graphics.
Well if they werent responsible for such a disproportionate amount of the bad shit thats happened on this planet in the past, they wouldnt be the default scapegoat for all the bad shit that happens in the present.
However, if you are a betting man, putting your money on the Mossad being responsible for something is a good value bet (if you can get good odds, which is unlikely).
How is this shit apportioned?
"One reason the documentary might not have been discussed much is, technically it's pretty crap. Not really a documentary at all, just a voiceover with some dull graphics."
The undeniable technical limitations aside, are you aware of any other 9/11 movies that address the issue of apparent 'truther' evidence which doesn't make any sense if you were to you think critically about its context?
Truthers can spot the flaws in evidence that supports the state's case - the fireproof passports, hijackers leaving korans in tittty bars etc
but they have serious problems in spotting the flaws in the evidence which supports their own point of view
apologies if you found the film a disappointment, I pointed you to it because it raises issues that few other voices are
I personally agree with the conclusion that some of this evidence is deliberately staged. I do not agree with the conclusion as to the reason
"...British intelligence British intelligence,, media(BBC) media(BBC) were all complicit,,maybe efven the odd foreign intelligence just to monitor proceedings."
Maybe you should visit somebody who is actually saying these things rather than typing them for me underneath my blog?
The inquest concluded without having established how or where the victims died and you can spam this blog with bullcrap and try and change the subject all you like but that won't make the Official Narrative any more credible
Actually you can't spam my blog all you like. Any further twuntish comments will be deleted as a matter or course
"Well if they werent responsible for such a disproportionate amount of the bad shit thats happened on this planet in the past, they wouldnt be the default scapegoat for all the bad shit that happens in the present"
That's the same argument used for stopping Black people on the street and the same argument used to demonise Muslims by the BNP/ EDL/ the first commentator under this post
One of the problems with using that kind of logic is that if you start using suspicion as evidence, the amount of 'evidence' snowballs in a very short time.
Each new piece of 'evidence' leads to more suspicions which are then treated as 'evidence' and so on
The War on Terror is a myth which is composed of an interlocked series of suspicions and rumours sitting on top of a handful of facts and some people honestly buy it. They believe it makes logical, factual sense
They're wrong of course but personally I'd rather not make the same kind of mistakes and find myself having my head up my arse the same way they do
All those moments lost in time, like tears... in the rain
@anon
being keen on free speech and open debate is not the same thing as being OK with letting some stranger sit in your front room making lewd comments about your girlfriend's tits
see if you can work out the difference and then come back
still working on it I see
The allure of elitism knows no boundaries. From kids that want to be famous over intelligent/informed, to middle managers seeking to step up the corporate ladder, to top bankers sacrificing their own in order to remain top dog.
There's no doubt that Israel and its Zionist supporters are behind a lot of the world's problems, but there are plenty of people alongside, above and below them perpetrating equally horrendous shit. IMO they all have an elitist world-view at their core. Sort that out, and things might just get peachy. I was thinking along the lines of some clever DNA reprogramming... (does that make me a eugenicist?)
"I was thinking along the lines of some clever DNA reprogramming... (does that make me a eugenicist?)"
Fraid so
There is another variable and that's material conditions
And if you're spiritual maybe a third
As for Zionists being responsible for a lot of the troubles in the world, I gave up trying to untangle them from all the other gangs, clubs, dynasties and interest groups a while back
"As for Zionists being responsible for a lot of the troubles in the world, I gave up trying to untangle them from all the other gangs, clubs, dynasties and interest groups a while back".
Give up trying to distinguish one from the other by virtue of their nationality or their chosen religion, sure. Not holding them to account because some of them maybe of a particular nationality or religious doctrine is another matter altogether. It's difficult enough to find the perpetrators and hold them to account as it is, and that includes both sides of the Zionist argument. Those seeking to 'prove' Zionist involvement and those seeking to reject it out of hand because, well, it's just not cricket. I say accuse who you want of what you want, but back it up. Our state is hell bent on accusing the 4 muslims for 7/7, without so much as backing it up. And on the whole, people swallow it. I despair.
A very pithy and worthwhile subject, Stef.
Here's my 2p-worth. The hints at Israeli involvement are either; a) evidence of Mossad being used as a proxy for western intel (and not the first time this is alleged to have happened); b) a deliberate misdirection.
Either way, I think the reasoning is the same: the perps know that anyone highlighting the apparent signs of Israeli involvement can be easily dismissed as anti-semitic nutters. And by assocation, all who ask questions of the official story are smeared with the same accusation.
It acts as a firewall, discouraging further investigation.
"Not holding them to account because some of them maybe of a particular nationality or religious doctrine is another matter altogether"
Yes, that card does get played.
People jumping the gun and making unsubstantiated accusations assist the people who would play that card, along the lines Craggy (above) has alluded to
It acts as a firewall, discouraging further investigation....
It strikes me that the Israeli government is more than happy to act as a lightning rod (it certainly pays), even revelling in it.
Everyone hates us and we don't care (plus we can pull any shit we want, because its expected/pre accepted anyway).
A few posts back Antagonist remarked that the reason J7 didn't take my the help I offered was because they looked at my blog, and my blog linked to people that held, in their opinion, the views that Zionism was to blame for everything, right?
Antagonist didn't mind linking to my blog for his own writing mind you http://antagonise.blogspot.com/2009/10/bombing-moon-for-nobel-peace-prizes.html
If we're all guilty of spreading disinfo/propaganda by virtue of the fact we might have someone in our sidebar who we may or may not take seriously, then we might as well chuck the towel in. Discernment is obviously only for the chosen ones.
WV = marcoplo (exploring I go)
"Our state is hell bent on accusing the 4 muslims for 7/7, without so much as backing it up. And on the whole, people swallow it. I despair."
If you look at past examples such as the Bologna Massacre or the people wrongly convicted of IRA bombings in the 70s and 80s these kind of official narratives can take years to be publicly unravelled
Naturally enough, people affected by these kind of atrocities give the authorities the benefit of the doubt and wait for the outcome of official investigations and proceedings before deciding to take action for themselves
Which is one of the reasons why inquiries into some of the more contentious events get kicked into touch and delayed for as long as possible
It is part of a deliberate process of attrition and despair is one of the objectives
"A few posts back Antagonist remarked that the reason J7 didn't take my the help I offered was because they looked at my blog, and my blog linked to people that held, in their opinion, the views that Zionism was to blame for everything, right?"
I wouldn't take it personally. J7 has been subject to numerous attempts at co-option and I suspect they've implemented the Precautionary Principle as a matter of necessity
That wouldn't inhibit members or supporters of J7 from linking to, interacting with or endorsing someone on their own account outside of the campaign
and it's worth remembering that because a site like the J7 Inquest blog is grounded firmly on an analysis of the flaws and omissions of the Official Narrative, untainted by any distractions or hypotheses, that it could be part of the basis of further activism by victims' families
that pisses off people who want to pass off either the jeehadii or the jewhadi hypotheses as being 'proven' and long may it continue
"It strikes me that the Israeli government is more than happy to act as a lightning rod (it certainly pays), even revelling in it"
yup
up for it, mad for it, paid for it
Stef said:
'…are you aware of any other 9/11 movies that address the issue of apparent 'truther' evidence which doesn't make any sense if you were to you think critically about its context?'
No, I'm not, and it's a good point that you raise. And I'm sorry if I gave the impression I found the video disappointing, I didn't. I found it pretty thought-provoking but was just pointing out a reason why it may not have got much play - there's nothing to watch.
However, the issues it raises are spot on. I've been thinking about it all day and I'm now pretty sure that what is going on with the Larry Silverstein 'pull it' comment and the Natanyahu warning is the creation of fake smoking guns.
I'm not quite sure how the dancing Israelis fits in but the really obvious point about those guys, it seems to me, which no one ever mentions, is just how far they went out of their way to get noticed.
I mean, who in their right mind would openly celebrate like that in NY on 9/11?
You have to admire the skill of the people who plan this stuff. I'm not ashamed to admit that in my early 9/11 Truth days (when I still spake as a child) I fell for the Larry Silverstein thing hook, line and sinker. And so did a lot of well-motivated people.
It's humbling, really, to see how easily they played that mighty Wurlitzer.
"It's humbling, really, to see how easily they played that mighty Wurlitzer"
This sort of business is as old as the hills and there has been plenty of opportunity to refine the process
As for that film, I've seen shonkier productions than that do the rounds on the Internet. The production values don't help but the message isn't very popular either
If you are going to be sceptical of official narratives it only makes sense to be equally sceptical of alternative narratives and evidence
Yes, it is sensible to be suspicious of stories such as the 9/11 fireproof passports. No, it is not sensible to accept the Dancing Israeli stories at face value, without critical scrutiny, just because they appear to support something you already believe
This presumably makes me a Zionist shill in the eyes of some. I won't be losing too much sleep over it
Keep thinking and searching
One of us might come up with something useful one of these days
S.
Stef said:
"Yes, it is sensible to be suspicious of stories such as the 9/11 fireproof passports. No, it is not sensible to accept the Dancing Israeli stories at face value, without critical scrutiny, just because they appear to support something you already believe"
That there ^^ is a critical, fundamental and oft overlooked point. Scepticism should not just be aimed in the direction of things which oppose your own world view or best guess of what happened. It should be aimed in all directions.
and just to illustrate how much time and opportunity there has been to refine the process of blowing smoke, a quick skim through the details of this...
Babington Plot
...will give some idea of how convoluted covert state shenanigans had already become 425 years ago
Yeah, but the Babington Plot was hundreds of years ago, Stef. Things have changed now. We're all modern and shit.
People don't deal in such dastardly devious ways any more. Conspiracies and deception are the sole preserve of works of fiction. None of it really happens now.
^ that was me btw :Dacerl
as it happens we can date the birth of 'conspiracy theorists' pretty accurately
1965
Is it not reasonable to assume that, whoever did 7/7, the government of Phony Bliar was complicit since it refused to order either a forensic or a judicial investigation of what occurred?
As for the idea that "Israel did it", this is based on the misconception that Israel is an independent state that largely rules the world, whereas, in fact, it is essentially a colony of the United States.
That the US often seems to do what Israel wants or demands reflects the fact that both Israel and the US are dominated by Zionists. The Vice President is a self-declared Zionist, Obama has been described as the first Jewish president, 16% of the members of congress are Jews and AiPAC apparently owns most of the other 84%.
So whatever Israel does of any significance on the international stage is done with US approval, i.e., by basically the same clique as run Israel.
Israel, it seems to me, has a malign influence on the United States similar to that of South Africa on Britain just over 100 years ago. Then, imperialists in South Africa -- Rhodes, Beit, Milner, worked in collaboration with Joseph Chamberlain, Stead and others of the British establishment to bring about the Boer war, which marked the beginning of the end of the empire. Likewise, Israel earns the support of America's Zionist ruling elite for crazy schemes that will surely bring the US empire to an early end.
That said, why British intel couldn't do 7/7 off their own bat, I don't know. Although for the sake of deniability, perhaps intelligence agencies generally undertake one another's atrocities, in which case the Mossad might have been called upon for assistance.
I see now, from the Secker interview, that there was a one hundred million pound forensic investigation. But were the results ever made public in a comprehensive form?
And is there no judicial forum in which the conclusions of this investigation concerning the guilt of the alleged bombers could have been critically examined? A grand jury maybe?
Without such a testing of the evidence, the investigation seems of little essentially worthless except to justify the official story --quite possibly mo more than a 100 million pound cover up.
Stef. Just because some people inch towards THE JEWS as a label doesn't mean all do, and you know that full well.
By they way, most Jews undeniably do subscribe, in different ways, to Zionism (apart from Naturei Karta and a speck of others - regarded as being 'Way off Jews' as one Jew told me once) - a doctrine even worse than an apartheid; paraphrasing Prof Achin Vanaik of Delhi University. 'Apartheid South Africa had to use black labour to survive, yet the Israyhelli colonisation apartheid tries to exclude even that, cutting of all survival mechanisms to the Palestinians'.
It appears that you are trying to smear people who denounce acts of evil done by people who claim they are Jews (who do so partly because their man made "scriptures" tell them to do just that, and claim themselves as superior beings) as saying that those denouncers accuse ALL JEWS.
As someone who claims to be against elitism, the way you half-close your eyes to this elitism - when some Jews are concerned - is rather puzzling.
Specifically w.r.t 7/7
Page 132 of Nafeez Ahmads book "The London Bombings" mention Thomas L. Preston - a former US Army counter-terrorism officer who now heads the corporate crisis prevention form, Preston Global in Frankfort, Kentucky - conformed the original report citing his own 'sources in the intelligence community'. He noted that 'Just before the first blast, Netenyahu got a call from the Israeli Embassy telling him to stay in his hotel room. The hotel is located next to the subway station where the first attack occurred and he did stay put and shortly after that, there was the explosion'[ref 259]
So Really, your beef on this point lies with Nafeez Ahmad, Thomas L. Preston and/or the Reporter Tom Kenny.
Is your 'Netenyahu use the Tube' line a gag or what? I imagine most people would think Netenyahu would walk into a motorcade by leaving the front of the hotel, near the hotel entrance. Who is saying He was going off on a Tube ride?
Re: Israyhelli security firms. Should security be left to foreign firms? Is it beyond reason to believe their loyalties are questionable? similar question goes for Russian or Chinese security firms. Should security/surveillance of the London transport be left in the hands of non-UK security firms? That it's likely Israeli bosses of these firms give primary allegiance to Israeli strategic national interests, doesn't that mean they should not be trusted. Say Israyhell did have a finger/hand/arm/body in 7-7. Does anyone really believe an Israyhelli owned security company would reveal evidence that may implicate Israyhell?
Now I know these things don't PROVE Israyhell did anything, but I certainly means they are suspects (strong suspects I would argue) for being involved with it. As such, all this deserves much more scrutiny, rather than shying away from it and blurting out ridiculous claims to the contrary, for whatever reasons.
As for claims that Silverstein and other establishment hacks are deliberately 'playing' with truthers, where is the evidence for that?
Can Speccy, the Israyhelli lobby controls the politicians in the US. It is also said to control the money - the means by which it controls the state.
Israyhell is no colony of the US.
"Is it not reasonable to assume that, whoever did 7/7, the government of Phony Bliar was complicit since it refused to order either a forensic or a judicial investigation of what occurred?"
It's certainly an accessory to the the crime IMHO
"Stef. Just because some people inch towards THE JEWS as a label doesn't mean all do, and you know that full well."
I am not playing a straw man game here
As you know, equally well, there are bugger loads of characters out there who absolutely do blame THE JEWS for everything
And they screech at anyone who offers a counter point of view and denounce them as being zionists or zionist agents
There's a follow up(s) to this post where I will point to a few of them
"Israyhell is no colony of the US"
No, it's a British colony
"That said, why British intel couldn't do 7/7 off their own bat, I don't know. Although for the sake of deniability, perhaps intelligence agencies generally undertake one another's atrocities, in which case the Mossad might have been called upon for assistance"
The easiest device to maintain anonymity would be to constitute an intelligence agency with no name. As well as saving on stationery costs it would be almost impossible for investigators to keep track of it or talk about it
@lwtc247
As for your points and questions about the alleged evidence that points to Israeli complicitly in 7/7 I've said my piece and there's nothing I can usefully add
Thus far, there's biff all evidence of Israeli complicity and the people who describe it as evidence are not 'inching' towards Israeli complicity. They have already decided who did it and they are clutching at whatever straws being dangled in front of their noses and utterances from blaspheming false prophets they can grab hold of
"Stef. Just because some people inch towards THE JEWS as a label doesn't mean all do, and you know that full well."
On reflection, I've decided that this accusation of me being a straw man artist is such disingenuous cock I'll start a list for you.
I'll limit myself to two minutes, no googling, and restrict it to American only IT'S THE JEWS STOOOPID!! characters...
Daryl Bradford Smith
Mike Rivero
Mark Weber
Michaal Collins Piper
Christopher Bollyn
Henry Makow
Jeff Rense
Mark Glenn
Eric Hufschmidt
David Duke
Kevin Barrett
two minutes over but there's no way I'm leaving
John Kaminski
out of that list
poor poor poor America
if it wasn't for those goddamned Jews it would be a paradise on Earth and the most powerful force for benevolent White Race values and home baked apple pie in the history of mankind
just like Germany before it
Stef, you've convinced me.
Everyone that espouses the view that "The Jews Did It", have NOTHING worthy to say. We shouldn't listen to them. At all. Under any circumstance.
That is what you're saying right?
May I remind you that the people on your list have actually brought quite a bit of knowledge to the foreground that would otherwise have been lost to the memory hole, I'm sure that includes some of the knowledge YOU have about Israel, Zionism et all.
"Everyone that espouses the view that "The Jews Did It", have NOTHING worthy to say."
Where have I said that?
If I didn't listen to what these people had to say I wouldn't know what they are about would I?
As things currently stand with 'The Left', this bunch and the libertarians they overlap with are often the only voices who are speaking out against particular issues
But they're stuck in a self-reinforcing, confirmation bias laden, loop that renders them incapable of distinguishing shit from shoe polish
and also just a tad paranoid
You follow some of these characters. Out of that list I've just knocked up how many have denounced some or all of the others of being Jewish shills?
Because anyone who disagrees with them just has to be a Jewish shill don't they?
The notion of Israel as a British colony is quite mistaken. With most members of the British House of Commons belonging to the Con/Lab/Lib Friends of Israel, it is Britain that looks like the colony.
My point about Israel as a colony of the US, was to emphasize the direction of control, i.e., I do not believe that Israel does anything much of a violent international nature without US approval -- and generally with the aid of US-supplied and paid for white phosphorus, fragmentation bombs, land mines, planes, rockets, etc.
What confuses some people is the sympathetic treatment Israel receives from the US, tolerance of their nukes, their killing, torture and humiliation of Palestinians, etc. But that is easily to understand when you recognize the unquestionable fact that the US ruling elite is largely Zionist.
America wants to see Israeli hegemony from the Nile to the Euphrates -- just so long as the Israelis continue to submit to American (Zionist) guidance as they always have done.
If Americans don't like their relation with Israel and Zionism, they need to kick the Zionists out of power, which will be difficult because the Zionists are backed by the biggest money bags.
And talking of colonies, it is Britain as much as Israel, that is a US colony. Garrisoned since WW2 by US troops, with US air bases, US nuke stockpiles and US radar and telecommunications interception installations.
And Britain get's to buy the best of American weapons technology, including Trident -- their very own independent deterrrent, LOL.
"The notion of Israel as a British colony is quite mistaken. With most members of the British House of Commons belonging to the Con/Lab/Lib Friends of Israel, it is Britain that looks like the colony."
When I referred to Israel as a British colony I was thinking about its origins, not the current situation which is so convoluted I freely admit that I haven't the faintest idea who's pulling whose strings.
though if you were to take a class-based view of the situation you'd argue that it doesn't especially matter which subset of the plutocrats has ascendancy over any of the others
If you are not playing the straw man game Stef, which I have to say it certainly appeared as though you were doing, then your accusations are just wrong.
My experience of some of the people on that rather McCarthyite list, is that they do not in fact do what you accuse them of, i.e. they claim 'THE Jews' - your blanket term - are guilty of the worlds ills. I am sure most intelligent people understand that when people such as Henry Makow point to the crimes of that disproportionately dominant section of the elite; Those which claim to be Jewish (btw the other (goym) segment of the elite never seriously oppose them and actually seem to lend them strong support! due to financial, co-elitist, messianic and apocalyptic - but mostly financial - reasons, while the non-goys laugh at them behind their back) they so because the (claimed)Jewish philosophical factor is highly relevant. Seen this, Gilad Atzmon?. It's not 'THE Jews' are guilty but that over influential segment of Jews who because they are Jewish are called Jews. And as I have said before, even simple ordinary Jews - like those bombed by Zionist terror groups, or used as pawns in WW2 or the Holocaust industry afterwards, actually also subscribe themselves to apartheid ideas of Jewish supremacy, and they use man made scripture as justification.
I am sure you know that perfectly well.
Of course, it's much easier, and convenient, to accuse people of saying global (even supposed American suffering) as being due to "THE Jews"
But I don't think the agitation that sparked this post as with others on the J7 Inquest forum are because of those people, rather as a result of the people who HAVE written here and on J7IF, and I suspect your somewhat vague accusations included me. If so, you are as wrong about me as I believe you are about some of them on the public list.
What you are doing is quite ADL in nature, which is very disappointing. I really thought you knew better. Much better.
It's a great pity the Netenyahu warning claims in Nafeez Ahmad's book and other issues such as loyalty issues of foreign security firms etc. simply never get honest discussion - as happened at the J7IF. Instead mentally defunct and childish tantrums come forth in an almost biblical auto-response attempt at diversionary ridicule involving space newts and Messiah's, not forgetting the ADL like 'contemporary yellow stars' of false Anti-Semitism, only recently, it's served a bit more subtly.
Very much different from what you would like people to use as suspicion of Israyhelli involvement.
Israyhell isn't a British colony. I agree with CanSpeccy's point that it looks like quite the reverse. Israyhell it's a self-realised colony born from what was an insincere promise to the Jews (I borrow from Reverend Stephen Sizer there). US Christian Zionism was strong in the US as it was in the UK in the 1800's. Jewish Zionism has used very cent given to it by the US and UK. It still enjoys the utmost support from the USUK due to the media, financial and life destroying clout.
I hope that from now on if Duke et al say things like "Jews did xyz", I hope now you will realise that they are not in fact saying 'ALL Jews'. And even if there are some people that say 'THE Jews..." that's got nothing to do with what people are saying about J7 and the possible (likely IMHO) Israyhell connections. Just as Jews who believe and expose Jewish wrongdoings are not also accusing ALL Jews of such crimes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYBsDwjezQI
I have been studying this for a number of years now and I am very confident in the current conclusions I have made.
Yours...
The chopper.
"It's [government of Phony Bliar] certainly an accessory to the the crime IMHO"
seems to me to more thn resemble
"Jews/Israyhell/Mossad are cetainly an accessory to the crime IMHO"
The former demands no evidence of course, unlike the latter which curiously gets on peoples tits.
The chopper
Because it happened on Blair's watch and he could have investigated it.
When you find yourself defending a Klansman maybe it's time to take a look around you.
Huh? Bliar is an "accessory to the the crime" because it was his watch? and Bliar is an "accessory to the the crime" because he did an abysmal job at investigating it?
As for defending a Klansman, I'm not defending anything connections to the Kaln. But you knew that.
Are you asking me? It looks like accessory after the fact at least.
Why did you bring up Duke specifically if you aren't siding with him?
It was rather rhetorical, but the origial point was that such accusations of bLiar being an accessory, expressed unashamedly as a humble opinion, isn't a million miles from people expressing humble opinions that certain Jews were involved, either before or after the fact.
It wasn't me that brought up DD, and if what DD says in the video I linked to is wrong and has no consequence, feel free to point that out.
I just noticed your link and got through about five seconds of it. "good news for you if you're not a Jew?" You can keep it.
"though if you were to take a class-based view of the situation you'd argue that it doesn't especially matter which subset of the plutocrats has ascendancy over any of the others"
I don't think that is a reasonable proposition. I don't think America's now defunct WASP elite held entirely the same beliefs, or would have adopted the same political course, as the UK/US Zionist-dominated elite.
For one thing, they had a more inclusive view of the World. They believed their culture superior to others but wanted others to share its benefits (see Carroll Quigley, the Anglo-American Establishment), whereas Zionists surely are motivated by the old theocratic imperative to establish their nation over over other nations of the Earth and be served by them.
Moreover, the Zionists seem ready to pursue their cause by means that some other elites would have estewed. For example, the destruction of American prosperity through financial fraud, the use of white phosphorus on Palestinian kids and the control of the porn industry and the Hollywood/media fake history industry to destroy competing cultures and religious beliefs.
(And if my reference to Jewish control of the porn industry upsets anyone, may I reference Aberdeen University Professor, Nathan Abrams. Likewise, I could offer evidence of preponderantly Jewish control in Hollywood and the American media, which is not to say obviously that non-Jews also play significant roles in those industries too.)
The evolution of man has been primarily dependent on group selection. Those who devote much energy to the promotion of their own group behave differently and achieve different results from those with a more universalist view.
While anti-Semitism has had many evil manifestations, the fact remains that it is a racism that is evoked in large part by the perceived racism of the victim group. Of course not all Jews are racists, merely adherents of some aspects of a cultural tradition which has many facets other than a sense of racial supremacy. But as long as the majority of diaspora Jews regard their first loyalty to their race, not their nation of residence, anti-Semitism will live on. Further, the Zionists have yelled "anti-Semitism" so often that there is an intensifying push back.
When people push back, they often speak wildly and inaccurately about "the Jews" which provides the Zionists further ammunition with which to scorn the "age-old mental disease of anti-Semitism" that afflicts the goys. But the net result may be even more violent push back because increasing numbers of people sense that they are being manipulated by slick line of propaganda, which consists in a technique for abusing and humiliating them, the inferior unchosen mensch.
"When you find yourself defending a Klansman maybe it's time to take a look around you."
I should maybe emphasise the fact that any opinions I express here are not simply pulled out of my rear end
I strongly advise anyone who thinks of David Duke as being some kind of noble anti-Zionist Truth Warrior to sit through this piece of shit and get an education...
Immigration and the Moral Right to Save Europe and the West!
He gets onto Muslim immigrant suicide bombers launching war on Europeans' Christmas and Muslim rape gangs molesting blue eyed Aryan children on the streets of London from 14:20 onwards
This is his standard line and not some kind of aberration
He's also exceptionally chummy with the EDL and other White Nationalist groups in both Western and Eastern Europe. And I trust at least some of us know who's funding these fuckers
"I trust at least some of us know who's funding these fuckers"
For the benefit of those of us without a clue as to who is funding these "fuckers", would you be kind enough to expound?
At a guess, I would suppose MI something or other?
If you consider that's along the right lines, are you suggesting that David Duke is a "controlled mass immigration opponent" or a security services infiltrator of anti-immigration groups -- as I envisage to be the role of that Cambridge trained lawyer and shoot-in-the-foot comic Nick Griffin?
Personally, my money's on Griffin being there courtesy of MI5 to screw up opposition to mass migration
The EDL is a little different as their role is concentrate on the clash of cultures (Muslim vs Christian) narrative and get some good old-fashioned, Zionist-supported, street violence going
I suspect that our views on the issues arising from mass migration may differ somewhat but we could probably both agree that planted buffoons and agent provocateurs aren't the way to go
We are, however, at risk of heading off at a tangent here as I still haven't replied to a couple of earlier comments
I'll probably revisit Griffin and Co. another time
S.
a couple of EDL links...
Islamophobic EDL rally with Zionists at Israel Embassy Weds 7pm 2nd June 2010
Gilad Atzmon: The Jewish Division
oh, and in specific answer to the question as to who is funding the EDL and its European equivalents, start with this shady fucker...
Alan Lake
Stef, thanks for the link on Alan Lake. Never 'eard of 'im, but will investigate with interest.
My view on immigration is based in part on a biological rationale -- the belief that diversity is a good thing, which can be maintained only by keeping breeding groups (i.e., races) more or less isolated indefinitely -- and a political belief in democracy (a bit unrealistic that) -- which means following public opinion when that is strongly felt by a large majority, as in the case of opposition to mass immigration to Britain.
My view about immigration to North America is a little different. Perhaps because I am an immigrant here! But also because the experiment, at least in Canada, has already gone too far to reverse. A new race is being born. It will take several generations to truly homogenize, but we will then have not a multi-racial society, but a Canadian race of diverse racial origins. That may or may not be good. What is shaping up seems OK! But it would be crazy, in my view, to get rid of the original sources of diversity, world-wide.
But yes, a bit far removed from the original topic.
Stef.
"I strongly advise anyone who thinks of David Duke as being some kind of noble anti-Zionist Truth Warrior to sit through this piece of shit and get an education..."
Nice, but I want to know:
In that video, are you saying what those influential Rabbi's are supposed to have said (Rabbi's mingle effortlessly and are connected with the elite), in fact, a pile of shit? Is what Gilad Atzmon says, shit? and what Henry Markov says, shit? Perhaps Rabbi Dovid Veiss says is shit too?
Forgive me for thinking you are wrong.
As for the real discussion that kicked off on J7IF and followed on here, it's about 7-7 and the Jewish connection. I'm still waiting for a discussion as to how what Nafeez Ahmad reported cannot be taken to have any basis as to why there isn't a Jewish connection to 7/7. I'm also waiting for a discussion on the implication of foreign security firms and their loyalties to whatever 'instruments' may have influence over them. There are other issues too.
Some discussion of the proofless claims of red herrings would make an interesting secondary point following on from the first. That would be the red herrings which, in the absence of evidence, it's OK for to used as basis for suspicion, but cannot be parallel as far as Jews/Israyhell and 7-7 are concerned.
vw = hesse
It's not just shit. It's Klansman shit.
Are you suggesting rabbis were mingling on tube trains undetected? If not, it seems rather spurious to expect us to discuss them.
But you didn't watch it Tom, yet you call it shit. Fantastic. As for "rabbis were mingling on tube trains undetected" go see a doctor.
Quick!
Having tried and failed to find a starting point to deal with the overt apriori racist outpourings demonstrated by one or two conspicuous commenters on this thread, it might be best to give the 'evil', 'world controlling' Jews the right of reply.
'Judaism Yes, Zionism No': Ultra-Orthodox Jews march against Israel
And here's one more Ant.
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/elias-davidsson-i-am-a-radical-antisemite-and-am-proud-of-it.html
"one or two conspicuous commenters on this thread"
Who?
And another excellent post from Gilad.
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/gilad-atzmon-for-the-sake-of-jewish-sensitivities-1.html
I'm interested to hear what Stef and others think of what Gilad Atzmon has to say?
@canspeccy
"For one thing, they had a more inclusive view of the World. They believed their culture superior to others but wanted others to share its benefits (see Carroll Quigley, the Anglo-American Establishment), whereas Zionists surely are motivated by the old theocratic imperative to establish their nation over over other nations of the Earth and be served by them"
The USA has been expanding constantly since its creation whether the peoples being expanded into were happy about it or not
which is why I picked the example of Andrew Jackson of a non Zionist bastard in my post
And I'm not sure that the Native Americans, Mexicans, Cubans, Filipinos or West Africans would agree that there was much of a difference between Zionist or WASP hegemony
Benevolent rhetotic was employed sure enough - 'Manifest Destiny', 'The White Man's Burden' - but the contemporary Zionists play a similar game claiming that they are fighting to spread democracy, defending Western Liberal culture from the brown hordes and so on and so on
It all reduces down to stealing and enslavement, practices which the Zionists have absolutely no monopoly on, now or then
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."
@edo
The Elias Davidson piece is not much more than a rehash of what Norman Finkelstein has been banging on about for years. Finkelstein does it better
The issue of what does or does not constitute anti-semitism or anti-zionism isn't what I was driving at with my post. I make no apologies for Israel, Zionism or the abuses of power and language that have been carried out to serve Israel or Zionism. These are issues deserving of exposure and outrage
What I disagree with is the paradigm that 'The Jews' are responsible for pretty much every awful thing in the world. Awfulness which is enabled by the supernatural powers at their disposal
Nope, not buying it at all
My personal world view is political not racial and I've spent a lot of time and thought getting there
As for Atzmon, for what it's worth, I don't rate his writing at all. It is dull and often difficult to follow. I suspect that if he wasn't born Jewish people wouldn't give his stuff a second glance
I've seen the point he tries to make about Israel not being a colonial project made elsewhere and made better. I don't buy it. True, most other colonies have a 'mother' state but there are also 'states' within states and 'states' which span states. Israel has parents sure enough and has never stood alone. If it had it wouldn't have lasted five minutes
@lwtc247
A selection of responses to your comments...
'My experience of some of the people on that rather McCarthyite list'
That's rather rich, considering that most of the people I point to are happy to compile lists of their own - lists based on people's ethnicity rather than their actions
"What you are doing is quite ADL in nature, which is very disappointing. I really thought you knew better. Much better."
I am delighted to disappoint you. I know full well the difference between people who are genuinely anti-zionist and those who mask their race hate behind the anti-zionist banner. I've listened to and read enough of their shit over the years to appreciate the difference
What I concede and what you have not is that there are two camps - genuine anti-zionists and genuine hate-mongers. In that respect, in your absolutism you have a shed load more in common with the ADL than I do. You're both playing the same game, just on different sides
@lwtc247
On the general point of responding to your comments
There isn't a lot of point if you're going to play dumb, pretend not to understand what is being said and simply change the subject
For example, you know full well the point I am making about the issues I have with the 'Netanyhau Warning' and why I consider it suspect
The point I make about people embracing evidence because it suits their prejudices not because it is strong evidence should also be pretty clear
I demonstrate that a hate-monger such as David Duke is more than capable of promoting lies about Muslims and their rape gangs but you seem willing to overlook the significance of that
And you accuse me of being a ADL-like, straw man artist when we both know full well that there are characters out there who hold the Jewish 'race' to be the primary force behind the world's evils. Only I can't point to people who display those characteristics, because then I'm a McCarthyite
I try willfully to avoid dodging the issue when responding to what someone has to say, your comments are littered with attempted sleights of hand which is why I'm loosing faith in your good will
for example
"In regards to 9/11, you personally suggested they had involvement in that, yet I guess you lack proof too or surely you would file criminal proceedings."
what the fuck is that comment supposed to be when it's at home?
...10/10 for the Straw Man
vs McCarthyite thing though
It's a new one on me and a device I haven't consciously noticed being used before
1. Accuse someone of using a straw man argument
2. Wait for them to respond with specifics
3. Accuse them of being a McCarthyite
smooth, very smooth
and getting back on topic, yes lets, I proudly present the Voice of Reason Network just jam-packed with thoughtful podcasts that go to great pains to distinguish Zionist elitists from ordinary Jews that prove conclusively what a straw man merchant I am
Not
I highly recommend Carolyn Yeager's Heretics Hour in particular. Her problem with Hitler was that he was just a little too Left Wing
but wait, there's more...
Kevin Boyle: IT IS ALL ABOUT THE JEWS
Yup, definitely someone 'inching', oh so reluctantly, 'towards THE JEWS'
fuck me, I've been so burned now that my straw man shenanigans have been exposed
CanSpeccy said "But as long as the majority of diaspora Jews regard their first loyalty to their race, not their nation of residence, anti-Semitism will live on."
I must have missed the results of that survey and it doesn't chime with my experience. Nice prop for a prejudice though.
Actually the McCarthyite reference wasn't without justification. It was said in relation to your black-ball list.
What I'm saying, is not being said lightly, and I've seen enough ADL crap to spot when such tactics are deployed, as they are here - copiously.
And frankly I'm kinda pissed off at them shot off in my direction (although I can't be quite sure of that due to some of them being what I conclude to be deliberately vague) and against people who are wrongly scoped.
As for what you say about me 'playing dumb' and 'not understanding' I find that very curious, for it seemed to me, that the purpose of this (along with some of your other recent postings) were against people who you say,
quote "'The Jews' did it" end quote,
In context of those people promoting quote "alternative narratives of 7/7" end quote, with obvious direction to those posting on the J7IF as well as those who may frequent and comment here.
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of that.
I'm also challenging (some of) the basis for your incorrect accusations about what you quote as the "Netanyahu Warning story" which isn't disproved whatsoever and is something you equated to racism against black people.
And if you would be so kind as to please tell me where they have ever said 'THE Jews' did it, that may help. 'cos I'm buggered if know of any person 'promoting' (or said to be promoting) alternatives, who has ever said such a thing
---
I fully acknowledge the badge of anti-Zionism can be worn by some who are anti-"those-who-claim-to-be-Jewish". However that doesn't negate their criticism of Zionism, or of Jews involved in Zionism, or in fact, other social wrongdoings by anyone who claims to be Jewish. If such offenders are Jewish then actually that would be irrelevant - if it weren't for (the possibility that) any malicious acts having causality from Zionist ideas/distortions of Judaism, largely enshrined in Talmudic passages.
Like the supposed Muslimness of an "Islamic" terrorist, the religious connection isn't irrelevant as the "Muslim terrorist" acts on the distorted religious teaching from the mouths of men listened to precisely because their words are made to seem religious. Those teachings and the acts they (may)inspire deserve enmity.
Geert Wilders criticising the 911 alleged hijackers isn't wrong even though he (seems) to hate Islam.
Virtually nobody's got a problem with anyone of an Abrahamic or Shem-ic generic descendancy. Most people do however, have a problem with socio-politico writings of men that promote evil acts, and rightly so.
It's quite shameful that others are deliberately choosing to combine them in order to mask one of of them - or is it just from ignorance?
"Correct me if I'm wrong on any of that"
Nope, can't be arsed
You'll play dumb, avoid the point and go off at a tangent whatever I write
I post a link to an article on a site you visit entitled 'IT IS ALL ABOUT THE JEWS' and you still have the cheek to write...
Virtually nobody's got a problem with anyone of an Abrahamic or Shem-ic generic descendancy. Most people do however, have a problem with socio-politico writings of men that promote evil acts, and rightly so.
..and accuse me of shameful practices
That's real chutzpah
As you're such an expert on ADL practices you'll also be aware that one of their standard practices is to spam blogs with multiple, long-winded, hard to follow comments of the black is white, white is black kind
Guess who wins the prize for being the top mensch on this thread
...and I have been wondering what would a devout Christian or Muslim be doing sticking up for the works of blasphemers such as a false messiah or minor dajjal? Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Now that I think about it that strikes me as very ADL-like behaviour
""Correct me if I'm wrong on any of that"
Nope, can't be arsed
You'll play dumb, avoid the point and go off at a tangent whatever I write"
Cunning, but not legitimate.
Oh, and absolutely wrong.
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